Rich Walnut Stain help - Whats missing?

[guerd87]

Hello everyone :)

I am currently staining a Set of Drawers/Change table for Baby #3

We wanted a nice dark colour and after a trip to Bunnings got a One step Cabots Rich Walnut Gloss Stain and Varnish.

The material is Pine and have applied 3 coats to it but is no where near what the sample looked like in store. I enquired about any pre steps and was simply told just brush it on and let it dry.

The colour we are looking for (which is what the sample for Rich Walnut Gloss looked like):

Sample card - Rich Walnut Gloss (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pAFgVaK539FiS9p8GBjYaA?feat=directlink)

Here is a picture of the drawers after 3 coats, hoping it would get darker with the second and third coat, but it didnt:

Change table - After 3 coats (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TxMbVm8rRNWf0r4uDczVDQ?feat=directlink)

Did I look at the wrong Sample card? Interior/Exterior stains should all be the same colour even across different brands? (a little variation I would expect)

Or am I missing out on some pre steps?

Any help would be great thank you.
Cheers,
John

[jimbur]

Might be a daft question but did you stir it properly?
Cheers,
Jim

[guerd87]

Might be a daft question but did you stir it properly?
Cheers,
Jim

Never a silly question in problem solving :)

Yes, stirred well with Paddle style Paint Stirrer before use.

[KevM]

Looks close to their sample colour http://www.cabots.com.au/images/interior/furniture_trim/stains_varnishes_in_one/stain_varnish/rich_walnut_gloss.jpg from their website (http://www.cabots.com.au/interior/furn_inone.asp).

Remember the final colour will vary depending on the timber underneath.

[guerd87]

Looks close to their sample colour http://www.cabots.com.au/images/interior/furniture_trim/stains_varnishes_in_one/stain_varnish/rich_walnut_gloss.jpg from their website (http://www.cabots.com.au/interior/furn_inone.asp).


Hmm, that looks nothing like the one I seen at Bunnings

Possibly may have been looking at a different Brand? I would assume they would be much the same though :(

Guess I will need to sand it off and get another can of the RIGHT stuff this time :(

[Ross Lambert]

I have never had much like with the stain/varnish pre mixed finishes and pine is pretty notorious for uneven results though this doesn't answer the question of why your colours are so different. But before heading off down the same stain/varnish mix road I reckon you should look at some of the posts on getting an even finish on pine by using a sealer and then staining and then adding a varnish after. A few more steps for sure but will lead to a much better result.

[jimbur]

It begins to look as if the can has been labelled wrongly. The colour looks more like a golden oak than dark walnut.
Cheers,
Jim

[rhancock]

I had the same problem with that stuff. We bought some Ikea kids tables and chairs a few years ago and used stain and varnish - came out a lovely deep brown colour, although horribly blotchy. That set lasted about 3 years and 3 repairs before I junked them. Bought a new set recently also from Ikea, but made from 'rubberwood'. Used Cabot's walnut stain and varnish - came out looking like baby poo!

I was thinking of using the same stuff on my hall table, (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/hall-table-wip-128131/) but using a sealer underneath. The table's made of tas oak, so some of the same issues as pine.

[guerd87]

Thanks for all the replies. This time I will use the standard 3 step process. I also dont think there is enough Varnish in the mix as it is, I was going to put another coat of clear over the top after I was finished(well, if it was the right colour :( )

[tomg]

I might be dumb here, but wouldn't the varnish after the first coat stop the stain working in subsequent layers

[old pete]

Hi Guerd 87,

It is well known that it is very difficult to brush or cloth stain raw pine without generating a blotchy appearance. The answer is to semi seal the surface with a light spray coat of shellac and then use a rapid dry commercial spray stain.Then follow with a clear polish.

If you add the difficulty of using a stain varnish straight on to raw pine then you have just about arrived at mission impossible IMO.

If you are using brushing techniques then I think you will get a good outcome by applying one coat of shellac, rubbed or brushed on spirit based interior stain to suit, followed by a couple of coats of clear lacquer such as estapol satin. I don't know what you can do to remediate the job you have now. Stripping that right back would be a nightmare. Paint and attractive transfers is starting to look attractive.

Good Luck Old Pete

[wisno]

When you are going to do finishing process on a big furniture, you should do some trial first on some wood panel board. Make a step panel as your finishing model. Then you can do your finishing process by following every process in your step panel.

Your stain might be the right material, but since it was applied on a pine wood, then it gave you a very different result.
The final finishing color is obtained by the blending color of your finishing color and the wood base color.


Thanks

Good luck

wisno

[ubeaut]

Are you sure the sample you saw was the stain varnish? Looks like walnut stain with poly/varnish over it.

Good luck with the stripping back, that stuff is a full blown pain in the bum to strip. :C

[rgreene71]

Ok this is the only forum i have found after searching and searching google about problems with Cabot stains. I have been refinishing wood for awhile now, I am not an expert by any means. Nor would i even begin to say im at that journeyman level where Im close to being a Master. However I am a journeyman just out of his apprenticeship as the way experience goes. Now I know its my fault for not going out to my usual retailer to buy stains i normally work with. But after careful mixing and preparation of my surface, this stuff, just plain out sucked. It did look like shellacked baby poo. My test sample wasnt to bad when i first tried it. So of course i applied it to a 1930's wooden pine trunk that i am redoing and was a little nervous about it.. It went on heavy and felt very muck like liquid brown plastic. My fears calmed some cause the directions said a light sanding before second and third coat. Ok, a second and third coat this isnt to bad. But I cant imagine using a second and third coat on this stuff, for it would feel and look like a latex brown paint. Now Im trying to sand that crap off. I could use some advice as to how to recover from this horrible stain. I need to sell this trunk, and well, not sure what to do to fix this. Any suggestions? (other then take it to the burn pile and say "ashes to ashes...").

[guerd87]

Never updated ts thread with pics, will do that later on tonight when im at home.

As for removing the Cabots stuff, I used a cabinet scraper and then sanded back. It left a few marks in the knots which sucked up alot of colour. In the end it all worked out good with a new stain and satin poly clear coat over the top. The misses couldnt be more happy with the results :)

This was one of my first big finishing jobs id ever done, I do know I wont go back to the All in one style stains. Maybe they are ok if you know how to use them, im happy doing it the longer way now.

John

[guerd87]

Well, here are a few pics of the finished Cot and Change table. (well the change table isnt quite finished in these pics, the top section which holds the mat in place wasnt screwed on yet)

John