Ubeaut Hard Shellac: a quick and dirty durability test

[rsser]

A forum member sent me a PM asking about a finish for a Huon table.

It was kind of him to think I was any kind of expert; I just replied that my first thought would be the Ubeaut product, given Neil's claims.

In any case as it happened last week I used the stuff to finish a Vic Ash board that was going to get hard use as a platform for my water stones. The board got 3 generous undiluted coats just wiped on.

So I did a quick test. Each nasty was left on for 30 mins.

1. Water. Beaded up. No damage.

2. Meths (96% ethanol) to simulate a spirit spill. It dissolved the surface some of which concentrated at the spill perimeter and dried. The surface was still clearly coated but matt instead of satin. Repairable? I'm sure Neil will advise.

3. Hot mug. Chose one that leaves a cloudly bloom under the poly surface on our commercially made coffee table. No marking at all.

Using meths to simulate a spirit spill is drawing a long bow perhaps, as spirits normally have a much higher water content and I don't know how a water/ethanol mix would go. None in the house to try.

And no, this is not a test of a 'French Polish'. I didn't cut the first coat, didn't sand between coats and didn't wait for a full moon to do the job!

Overall the stuff looks pretty good to me.

Hope this helps.

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Ern, thanks for the headsup on this one, as I have often wondered about hardshellac and how it copes with the vagaries of normal everyday living. I have only used normal shellac and done the French polish thing be it for antiques I have restored or as per use on house joinery, ie. doors, skirtings, overmantles and architraves.

However, I previously used organoil, and bees wax polished a bench top in the kitchen, while on the other one which was more likely to suffer water damage over time, given that the sink is located in it, used the Feast Watson Floor seal product (mix of Tung Oil and Poly). I tried the two to see how each would last over time.

The bench top which has the sink in it, now needs to be sanded back, some 8 years later, (lightly and re-coated) but only around where water spills onto the surface. The other bench top, despite being on either side of the stove, has survived well, with only the occasional waxing. I never place hot pots on the surfaces, and always clearup any water spillages etc.

But I am wondering whether something like hard shellac could also be a really option, for such surfaces, given I have a really strong aversion to using Polyeurathane.

Maybe Neil or someone else familiar with this finish may be able to provide some more incites into its use and durability, let alone finish qualities. Dave

[Chesand]

If you click on the "U-Beaut Polishes" sign at the top of this thread you can then go to the Hard Shellac information which should answer most of the queries.

I am sure that Neil will later add to the discussion

[Rattrap]

These sort of real world trials are so handy. Thanks so much rsser. & yer the metho test was really stretching it, i think alcohol would hardly mar the finish.

[Elill]

I love this stuff, its all I use now...as some of you would have gathered....

Question - anyone used on a floor? or is that a bit of a stretch?

[RufflyRustic]

I sanded back my kitchen island hardwood benchtop earlier in the year, about 6 months ago and refinished it with Ubeaut's Hard Shellac, about 6 coats I think. Sure, i look after it by keeping it clean, wiping up spills etc and it is early days yet, but except for one small scratch, it has held up so well. :)

[RufflyRustic]

also found this post (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/restaurant-table-finish-61099/#post630207) from ubeaut :)

[ubeaut]

G'day Ern - Yeah, just a bit harsh with the ethanol, we're talking drinking (sipping/quaffing) alcohol in the specs. Not pure rip your face off industrial alcohol, thinners, etc.

Quick question.... Did you allow the stipulated 20 odd days for the shellac to fully cross link before the ethanol test?

My test pieced are not here at the moment so can't do exactly what you did. But I currently have one of our stirring stick soaking in 100% Ethanol for the last hour. Have pulled it out and am allowing it to dry naturally. Not using a rag as 1 hr is a bit over the top on fresh shellac and will probably pull it a bit. I'll leave it for a few hours to dry and continue this reply later.

The particular stirring stick I'm using was only used a few days ago so is still green and will have only barely started to cross link.

Cheers - Neil :U

[rsser]

No Neil; I did wonder about the cross-linking so made a point of saying that the board had only been done last week.

And yes, if there'd been some sipping whisky in the house I would've used that instead of the garden variety meths. Only a drop or two though!

(And I've forgotten the name for meths plus boot polish which is a tipple of choice for some hardy souls).

In any case, around my place that particular coffee mug has caused some grief and I was impressed with how the Hard Shellac coped.

[ubeaut]

Continuing on: Very slight dulling on the stick not too noticeable but buffed out easily with EEE-Ultra Shine. Also polish reviver worked on it.

Found one of the test pieces and left 100% Ethanol on the surface for 10 minutes and could see no appreciable difference in the finish. Also put on a spot of 30 year old Glenfiddich and Smirnoff 100-Proof Vodka and a bit of tongue oil from licking it off. :licklips:

No visible difference. The test piece used was done around 7 mth ago so well and truly cross linked.

A gent from USA told me he had used Shellawax on some wooden ceremonial goblets that were used twice a month to make a toast with Wild Turkey and after 18 mth there was still no visible signs of marking. A couple had dulled ever so slightly, but a rub over with a soft dry cloth fixed it. Shellawax is based on our Hard Shellac.

[rsser]

Does Wild Turkey have any alcohol in it?

Would the Yanks notice if it didn't?

...


I'd like a test regime that I could write off on tax, like Neil's :-}

'Commissioner, of course I had to use 2l of Talisker for the test. That's what my customers are likely to slop on my yew-bewt finish, slobs that they are!' ;-}

Good result anyway.

So what does Hard Shellac taste like?

[ubeaut]

Does Wild Turkey have any alcohol in it?I believe it was 101 proof.... So, um yep jus a lil bit.:cheers:


So what does Hard Shellac taste like? Bit like a cross between a beaufiful sinle malt, a wreally good wodka wiv a bid off horze riniment frown in for goo messsher... Yipee :drunk22:

[rsser]

:laughing1:

Cool. Send me 4l pls!!

[ubeaut]

Ya can't drink it or you'll die......

But you'll have a beautiful finish.

Boom boom :doh:

[Horsecroft88]

So guys, a question if I may and no I havn't read the links so perhaps all the answers are there, but can you effectively use hard shellac as say similar as normal shellac but say for a antique kitchen table or benches, and effectively french polish the stuff, or is it too difficult to cut back and eventually wax polish to get a nice finish.

I ask as until I joined this forum I had never heard of the stuff. I am curious. If it is yet another effective finish to use I would be interested in obtaining some, but again how, from where, what quantities does it come in (is it a flake which you mix with metho like normal shellac or does it come pre-mixed) and lastly how much to post down to Hobart, which of course would depend on the weight/size of the container I assume.

Also what is the deal with eee ultra shine and polish reviver. What is there purpose.

Sorry if these are all dumb questions. Dave

[rsser]

See the link to Ubeaut Polishes in the frame, top left.

[ubeaut]

As Ern said all the info is just a click away on the banner above.

But briefly:


Hard Shellac can be used the same way as any other shellac.
Sold in liquid as it has to be specially blended and the raw form has a short shelf life if incorrectly stored.
500ml size gives a minimum of 1 litre and up to around 4 litres + depending on how you intend to use it.
Comes in 500ml, 5 litre and 25 litre sizes.
Not really suitable for use over other finishes as they may move at different rates and could create crazing on the surface down the track.
Not available everywhere and never will be. We stick with speciality shops or online sale through our distributors.
Click on the U-Beaut banner above to find out more.

[silentC]

I sanded back my kitchen island hardwood benchtop earlier in the year, about 6 months ago and refinished it with Ubeaut's Hard Shellac, about 6 coats I think. Sure, i look after it by keeping it clean, wiping up spills etc and it is early days yet, but except for one small scratch, it has held up so well. :)
I'm interested in this. I've got a hardwood island bench top to make soon and I was wondering what I would finish it with.

I've read the info on Hard Shellac on the UBeaut site, but I guess my question would be how easy is it to repair? Is it a case of sanding the finish right back to reapply, or can you just give a light sand and add another coat over old coats?

[rsser]

Neil's data sheet for it can be found here (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/infosheets.htm)

If it can be used as per any other shellac presumably it's repairable but Neil's the man to advise.

And one wrinkle is that cos it's flammable it can't be sent through the mail AFAIK.

[silentC]

Thanks Ern. The data sheet link on the Hard Shellac page isn't enabled.

I did have a bottle of it a few years ago which I'm sure I got through the mail though...

[AUSSIE]

Thanks Ern. The data sheet link on the Hard Shellac page isn't enabled.???

I did have a bottle of it a few years ago which I'm sure I got through the mail though...
I just tried the Hard shellac page,and it works fine.Give it another go:2tsup:

[silentC]

I can get to the Hard Shellac page but the Data Sheet link is not active. It's just text, no HTML anchor.

[jmk89]

I can get to the Hard Shellac page but the Data Sheet link is not active. It's just text, no HTML anchor.
That's true on the Hard Shellac page , but if you follow Ern's link you get to the information sheet page where the link is activated

[DJ’s Timber]

All of u-Beauts Data Sheets (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f212/data-information-instruction-sheets-96907/) can also be found in the Forum Library

[silentC]

That's true on the Hard Shellac page , but if you follow Ern's link you get to the information sheet page where the link is activated
Yes I know that...

I went to the Hard Shellac page after reading RR's post to see if I could find info on whether Hard Shellac is easily repairable like normal shellac, or harder to repair like poly.

I discovered the Data Sheet link was not enabled, so I posted my question.

Ern gave me an alternative link, which I thanked him for, but I just wanted to point out that I had tried to find it on the Hard Shellac page and the link there is not enabled.

It still doesn't answer my question though. :)

[Horsecroft88]

Thanks Ern and Neil, I was being a little lazy and so hence my question. I took both of your advice and yes my questions are answered. I guess the next thing to do is similarly get off my butt and place an order for some Hard Shellac, and other stuff, to try it out for myself.

I have plenty of projects to get on with afterall. Cheers Dave

[RufflyRustic]

Try it Dave, oh please do. It is worth it's weight in titanium! :) Yes, I'm biased because I use it and love it! Hard Shellac also makes a great fingernail polish on the occasions I forget to wear gloves :doh::B:D

SilentC - I don't see why a good clean, a light sand and another good clean before reapplying a coat to the whole benchtop wouldn't work. I can appreciate that maybe re-applying to a large benchtop would be a pain. In all honesty, I've never had to repair a scratch in a Ubeaut-shellac'd piece before, so I'm not the best to answer this.

cheers
Wendy

[ubeaut]

It can be refinished with 1200 grit abrasive lubricated with our FoodSafe Plus Oil so there shouldn't be any major problem to repair. Shellac has the amazing ability to stick to petty much anything so there also should be no problem with it sticking to itself eh.

Any hard, durable finish will be hard to repair, even some not so hard, not so durable ones, like poly.

Yes Hard Shellac is hard to finish, but not as hard to repair as a many others.

We had a French polished table in our family when I was growing up it was some 60 years old and looked as good as new. In those days we did this really strange thing. We looked after our possessions and didn't treat them like rubbish. That table was used regularly for dining at as well as for dads office, games and a variety of crafts.

Today many tables are all but ruined in a few years. Is it the modern finishes or people who never learned respect for their, or anyone else's property. I've watched people who should know better put hot cups and a lot worse on polished tables when there was a coaster sitting right in front of them. It seems to be common practise. No wonder the important question nowadays is how hard is it to repair.

[silentC]

Well it sounds like you get asked that question a lot Neil. Maybe it would be a good addition to the data sheet.

Thanks for your response. I'll make sure there are plenty of coasters laying about when I finally get the job done.

[RufflyRustic]

I bought a new dining table last year, was finished with a standard stain, some sort of varnish and wax. I love the shape and edging of the table but hate the finish. One day I fully intend on stripping it back and refinishing it in, yep :D Hard Shellac and trad wax. Only then will I be completely happy with it. Don't know what sort of wax they used, but it keeps every single mark and no matter how I try to clean it, those marks remain:(( At least with trad wax it's so easy to repolish it.

[silentC]

Yes that's what I'm after. I like the look of shellac and wax. However it's a kitchen bench and accidents happen, so it's nice to know you can repair it, if you have to.