authenticity ... milk paint

[fletty]

I read a lot of magazines about woodwork and furniture and you can bet your collection of Berg chisels that, once every 3 months, at least one American magazine will have an article about milk paint. I read the first, browsed the second and third and stopped reading as I thought there was no relevance to Australian restorations, Well, I went into a retro shop today, mainly clothes, linen, jewellery and household goods BUT there were also a few nice pieces of furniture. There was an Australian silky oak kitchen dresser , "circa 1930", very tidy, authentic catches and cupboard layout seemed original and, when I opened it up, the inside was painted in what looked like pastel green milk paint?
Was milk paint used in Austalia? I thought we had gone straight from oxides in linseed oil to 'modern' enamels in the 1920's?
fletty

[seriph1]

Milk paint has been used all over the world for many centuries. It is made from the protein casings of milk, called casein. Who came up with the idea is beyond me but human beings are great adapters and let's face it, we do some bloody weird things! I have used Milk Paints on several cabinets and it produces a beautiful finish. It just can't handle anything with alkali content, like soaps and fats. Of course, you can put clear finish over it to protect it, but it sorta kills the point. Anyway, it has been used in Australia since settlement. I buy my Milk Paint from the US but I think you can get it from Porters Paints .... at the very least, Porters have paints that finish like Milk Paints..... used it today on a cabinet we are making. Cheers

[markharrison]

You can make your own. I've done it and it is very simple. Hardest part was find the right pigments. I used cement pigment in powder from Bunnings and found it to be the best.

Homemade Milk Paint Recipe - Real Milk Paint ® (http://www.realmilkpaint.com/recipe.html)

I used milk powder from Aldi to make the base. Make sure you use hydrated lime and not quick lime.

Some people finish with a coat of Danish Oil but the last time I did this I used Minwax wipe on poly because I already had some in the workshop. It leaves a nice matt finish and slightly darkens the colour. I will do the same thing the next time.

[seriph1]

nice idea - I will give it a try ... what did you paint wit it?

[fletty]

Thanks for the replies, just for the intrigue of it I will be giving it a go too.
The milk paint in the dresser that started all of this really did look good.
fletty

[jmk89]

Porter's website says that its milk paint is made with milk-products

[markharrison]

I painted a tool box. This was a bastard collage of various bits of plywood and hardwood of unknown provenance that were lying about. The paint tied it all together. It looks rather good for what is.

[Woodwould]

I haven't come across milk paint on sixteenth, seventeenth or eighteenth century furniture and I don't know a lot about Victorian furniture and virtually nothing about later stuff, but Stephen Shepherd (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=868#comments) has this to say about milk paint:

"There is no such thing as milk paint. Examining carefully the historical record, in probate inventories, journals, dairies, advertisements and publications of the early nineteenth century in America and have not found one documented case or can or bottle or package of ‘milk paint’. There is an occasional reference to ‘casein’ paint made from cheese and used by artists as a light duty paint, but it is not milk paint. Casein is a phosphoprotein that was developed in 1841, so the history is not that old.
What people believe to be ‘milk paint’ is in fact old oxidized oil based lead paint. Testing in laboratories on old furniture and woodwork invariably come up with the results that the paint is oil based. There are old advertisements for oil paint, exterior oil paint, lead paint, house paint, etc., but not one ad for ‘milk paint’, why because it wasn’t made and sold. What people call milk paint is invariably oil based lead paint that has oxidized, if it is difficult to remove they ‘think’ it is milk paint, it is not.
If it contains milk, skim milk, dry milk or dry skimmed milk; it is whitewash. Pigments can be added to give it color but it is still whitewash. Linseed oil and turpentine can be added to it for exterior applications, but it is still whitewash. Paint is paint and whitewash is whitewash. There are many old recipes for whitewash and much was used on buildings, woodwork and even furniture but it is whitewash it is not paint.
It might seem like a fine line between paint and whitewash but I am willing to distinguish that line. The historical record shows that the preponderance of paint in the nineteenth century was paint made from linseed oil and turpentine and pigments and other ingredients not one of which was milk.
A warm ‘buttermilk paint’ finish on a piece sounds colonial and sweet but it is bunk. It became a bit of folklore, a wives tale and a myth because no one challenged it with serious research. Show me where in the historical record that ‘milk paint’ was manufactured, sold and used by woodworkers to paint their furniture, you can’t because it just didn’t happen.
Unless and until I receive some convincing documentation of its common use I am going to remove ‘milk paint’ from my woodworking lexicon. It remains a myth."

[silentC]

I'm hardly an expert on the subject, but it seems to me that looking for examples of the stuff being manufactured and sold is pointless, since the shelf life is only a couple of days. My assumption was that it was made up by the end user from a recipe, and was not something you went to the paint supplier for.

Some links:

Plain and pleasant talk about fruits ... - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=PforAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA187&dq=Milk+paint&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=Milk%20paint&f=false)
The painter, gilder, and varnisher's ... - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=IcM5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA98&dq=Milk+paint&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=Milk%20paint&f=false)

Both are from 19th century books and they suggest that milk paint was in use and is not, as Mr Shepherd suggests, a myth.

[Woodwould]

I'm hardly an expert on the subject, but it seems to me that looking for examples of the stuff being manufactured and sold is pointless, since the shelf life is only a couple of days. My assumption was that it was made up by the end user from a recipe, and was not something you went to the paint supplier for.

Some links:

Plain and pleasant talk about fruits ... - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=PforAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA187&dq=Milk+paint&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=Milk%20paint&f=false)
The painter, gilder, and varnisher's ... - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=IcM5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA98&dq=Milk+paint&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=Milk%20paint&f=false)

Both are from 19th century books and they suggest that milk paint was in use and is not, as Mr Shepherd suggests, a myth.

I quoted my own personal experience and also quoted from Shepherd's now infamous dissertation with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek! He's always blowing off some controversial nonsense (à la Erich von Daniken) and on the occasion of posting the above on his blog; he received copious amounts of flack for it. Such was the heat that the post 'mysteriously' disappeared, only to come back and haunt him by way of subscribers re-posting the content in the reply section.

Milk paint (and distemper) have been used for architectural coatings for centuries, but milk paint's use on furniture is a relatively recent invention and therefore I would refrain from using it on furniture of any great historic merit (pre-Victorian).

[silentC]

... quoted from Shepherd's now infamous dissertation ...
Ah, well you can trust me to rise to the bait. It's the first time I've heard of him or his opinion on the subject :)

[jmk89]

Ah, well you can trust me to rise to the bait. It's the first time I've heard of him or his opinion on the subject :)

Stephen (unlike von Daniken) does try to be historically accurate. I would hesitate before disagreeing with Stephen (whereas I would disagree with von Daniken on principle).

Stephen's book on hide glue is, without doubt, the most thorough and most thoroughly researched, examination of that subject and if he says that he can't find a mention of milk paint (as opposed to whitewash) in the C19 literature in the USA, I would accept that - just as I would accept Wouldwood (aka Jack Plane) when he discusses a matter of British furniture practice of C18.

PS That doesn't mean that you can't have genuine milk paint (ie a paint made from milk product). It just means that such product is not the same as whatever it was that C19 furniture-makers put on their products!

[silentC]

if he says that he can't find a mention of milk paint (as opposed to whitewash) in the C19 literature in the USA, I would accept thatBut I found two of them, both American and both from the 19th century, without even trying.

Perhaps what he means is that he can't find any evidence specifically of it having been used to paint furniture. But he clearly states "there is no such thing as milk paint" and he supports this argument with the fact that he could not find any evidence of it ever having been made commercially. Yet I have two easily found references that mention it specifically by that name. The formulation may not coincide with his definition of the term "paint", but that is what they called it.

[Woodwould]

Stephen's book on hide glue is, without doubt, the most thorough and most thoroughly researched, examination of that subject ...
The facts are there – some of them repeatedly. It reads like a blatently plagiarised year eleven examination paper. What he lacks in knowledge and comprehension of the subject matter, he makes up for with pretty sketches.

[mic-d]

"There is an occasional reference to ‘casein’ paint made from cheese and used by artists as a light duty paint, but it is not milk paint. Casein is a phosphoprotein that was developed in 1841, so the history is not that old."

I had to have a chuckle at this. I thought cheese was made from milk and certainly the milk paint recipe I have requires making cheese (quark) first and using this to make the paint. And casein has always been in milk, not just since 1841. Funny stuff.

Cheers
Michael

[markharrison]

I seem to recall that milk paint was used by Windsor chair makers. Considering the different types of wood they used to make a chair they would have had to use something to tie the finish together.

As for the provenance of milk paint I will have to refer you to this:

The History of Milk Paint - Real Milk Paint ® (http://www.realmilkpaint.com/milk-paint-history.html)

While this is obviously a commercial organisation we're not talking about some multi-national paint company. I'm going to take them at their word.

[Shepherd]

Interesting discussion. I still stand by my opinion that milk paint is a nice myth. Two references, wow I found several milk paint recipes that were all whitewash. The stuff just wasn't used to paint furniture. Distemper paint was used on furniture.

I will cover the subject in my next book on C19 furniture finishes, hopefully it will read like a grade twelve paper.

Stephen

[mic-d]

Interesting discussion. I still stand by my opinion that milk paint is a nice myth. Two references, wow I found several milk paint recipes that were all whitewash. The stuff just wasn't used to paint furniture. Distemper paint was used on furniture.

I will cover the subject in my next book on C19 furniture finishes, hopefully it will read like a grade twelve paper.

Stephen

What laboratory testing was done on the old paint that 'confirmed' it was lead paint? It is likely lead was a pigment added to the paint and possible it had an oil glaze topcoat. That would appear in 'laboratory testing' to contain lead and oil wouldn't it. Were mass spectrometry or electrophoresis tests conducted to determine the presence or otherwise of milk protein? It's poor form not to mention what specific types of tests were done, it ends up reading like a tooth paste commercial.

Cheers
Michael

[Woodwould]

I will cover the subject in my next book on C19 furniture finishes, hopefully it will read like a grade twelve paper.

Stephen
Ah, so it will be a collection of quotes exclusively from Wikipedia. Good choice.

[mic-d]

Ah, so it will be a collection of quotes exclusively from Wikipedia. Good choice.

I was going to say ouch!

but this little snippet...
"There is an occasional reference to ‘casein’ paint made from cheese and used by artists as a light duty paint, but it is not milk paint. Casein is a phosphoprotein that was developed in 1841, so the history is not that old."

...intrigued me again so I decided to google 'casein 1841'

It turns out the origin of the WORD 'casein' dates to 1841, eg Casein | Define Casein at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/casein) (about 1/3 down under word origin and history) . I am so disappointed that this was interpreted to mean the casein protein was developed in 1841. I am even more disappointed that little effort went into checking the facts before making sweeping statements to a wide audience.:((:((:((

Cheers
Michael

[silentC]

Two references, wow I found several milk paint recipes that were all whitewash.
Yes, two without even trying very hard and both in books written in the the 19th century in the US. Both calling it "milk paint". You say you couldn't find any reference to it, so I guess you didn't look very hard.

Your argument appears to hinge on what you define as the fine line between whitewash and paint, which is incredibly pedantic, even by my standards.

[Mike Busby]

Plain and pleasant talk about fruits ... - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=PforAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA187&dq=Milk+paint&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=Milk%20paint&f=false) Found this while looking for an answer - still looking but at least the source document is dated 1859

^ (http://www.woodworkforums.com/#cite_ref-Beecher_0-0) Beecher, Henry Ward (http://www.woodworkforums.com/wiki/Henry_Ward_Beecher) (1859). Plain and pleasant talk about fruits, flowers and farming (http://books.google.com/books?id=PforAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA187&dq=Milk+paint&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=Milk%20paint&f=false). Harvard University: Derby & Jackson. p. 187.

Can't find too much else out there except for the same blurb being repeated on every website I check. Paint thousands of years old used by caveman etc

[Woodwould]

He's at it again (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=1411)! The first two hits for 'venice turpentine' on Google basically covers the lot. "Solid" turpentine? I can't accept that. Turpentine is distilled sap/resin and not a solid.

As for "1 ½ ounce indicates this is in solid not liquid form"... of course it's liquid! What is an ounce if not 1/40th of a quart (or 1/32nd in the US)? Unless the quart of "Rectified spirits of wine" is a US dry quart.

Oh the perils of becoming a Google smart!

[Shepherd]

He's at it again (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=1411)! The first two hits for 'venice turpentine' on Google basically covers the lot. "Solid" turpentine? I can't accept that. Turpentine is distilled sap/resin and not a solid.

As for "1 ½ ounce indicates this is in solid not liquid form"... of course it's liquid! What is an ounce if not 1/40th of a quart (or 1/32nd in the US)? Unless the quart of "Rectified spirits of wine" is a US dry quart.

Oh the perils of becoming a Google smart!

Look up turpentine in the OED [Oxford English Dictionary] or the Oxford Universal Dictionary.

Hey keep up the ad hominems.

Stephen

[Blue-deviled]

I will cover the subject in my next book on C19 furniture finishes, hopefully it will read like a grade twelve paper.


You're not setting the bar very high then?

Out of curiosity, was there any use of cheese paint?

[Woodwould]

Look up turpentine in the OED [Oxford English Dictionary] or the Oxford Universal Dictionary.
According to the OED (I never heard of that acronym before – thanks) turpentine is an "oleoresin secreted by certain pines and other trees and distilled to make rosin and oil of turpentine". Oleoresins are not solids and the 'turpentine' referred to is obviously the wider acceptance of the word – the volatile spirit.

[Pagie]

I just painted a Windsor chair that I made at a course at the Melbourne Guild of Fine Furniture, before Christmas. I painted it with milk paint..It comes from America as a powder.

[Pagie]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pagie/5341374104/This is the chair.http://www.woodworkforums.com/%3Ca%20href=%22http://www.flickr.com/photos/pagie/5340790501/%22%20title=%22IMG_0021%20by%20Pagie%27s%20pics,%20on%20Flickr%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5340790501_5ee0717384.jpg%22%20width=%22375%22%20height=%22500%22%20alt=%22IMG_0021%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3E">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5340790501_5ee0717384.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pagie/5340790501/)

This is the Milk Paint http://www.woodworkforums.com/%3Ca%20href=%22http://www.flickr.com/photos/pagie/5341350390/%22%20title=%22Milk%20Paint%20by%20Pagie%27s%20pics,%20on%20Flickr%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5341350390_3a4274a044.jpg%22%20width=%22500%22%20height=%22333%22%20alt=%22Milk%20Paint%22%20/%3E%3C/a%3Ehttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5341350390_3a4274a044.jpg (http://www.woodworkforums.com/%3Ca%20href=)">

[Ian Wells]

I've worked within the artists paint manufacturing business for 20 odd years and have read just about every ancient recipe book and treatise there is on paints, resins, varnishes, oils etc. And I have never seen any recomendation of using a milk/casein paint on furniture, except for in the last 15 years so called "experts in folk art" who promote DIY painting of hideous flowers on mdf gegaws. Most so called milk paints sold are acrylics that have been adulterated with fillers to get that horrible chalky look. Plaka made by pelican was a casein gouache that was made till a few years ago for designers and sign writers, I spilt some on a chair once and it would continually come off on to my trousers, thus suggesting that it was useless as a furniture finish.

Ps. Talens sell a good Venice turpentine, expensive but the real thing with no dilutive

Ian

[Woodwould]

I've worked within the artists paint manufacturing business for 20 odd years and have read just about every ancient recipe book and treatise there is on paints, resins, varnishes, oils etc. And I have never seen any recomendation of using a milk/casein paint on furniture, except for in the last 15 years so called "experts in folk art" who promote DIY painting of hideous flowers on mdf gegaws. Most so called milk paints sold are acrylics that have been adulterated with fillers to get that horrible chalky look. Plaka made by pelican was a casein gouache that was made till a few years ago for designers and sign writers, I spilt some on a chair once and it would continually come off on to my trousers, thus suggesting that it was useless as a furniture finish.

:U Brilliant! Have a greenie on me!