Glueing pre-1940s Chairs?

[jenkinsr]

I have inherited some oldish but not really valuable chairs. They were made by Louis Rasetter & Sons in Fort Wayne, Indiana between 1925 and 1945. They're folding chairs, originally part of a card table set. Apparently they made quite a few of them - one of my old neighbours dropped in the other day and he recognised them from his youth...

From the set of four, two are fine and intact and two are loose in a couple of the joints. I'd like some advice as to how to go about fixing them - without ruining them, as I am an amateur at this.

One has loose rails between the front legs, and the other is the same but also the front rail of the seat frame has come adrift. The rails look like they're dowelled and the front of the frame is tongue and grooved.

I'm thinking Aquadhere rather than Titebond III but I'm open to suggestions. I'm also going to be chasing some old style screws to replace some of the modern substitutes that have been used over the years, so if anyone knows a good source of wood screws then feel free to share.

First pic is the two good chairs, for context. Next is the dowelled leg/rail and then the frame (hope I'm using the right terminology here!)

Thanks!

[Master Splinter]

My first test would be to hold one of those glued dowels over the steam from a kettle. If the glue residue rapidly becomes soft and glue like (and then sets hard again a few minutes after being removed from the steam) it's hide glue...in which case you should stick (ha ha) with hide glue (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/hide.htm) for the repair.

If it's anything else (PVA, contact cement, epoxy, wallpaper paste, whatever), you'll need to remove it to provide fresh mating surfaces for re-gluing (very few glues stick to other glues very well at all).

My strong recommendation for any piece of furniture with historical value is to use hide glue (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Animal_Hide_Glue/). Yes, it needs heating and preparing, it can smell, it's not a convenient 'squeeze and yer done' solution, but it has the delightful characteristic that it is a 100% reversible glue (warm water softens it). It's strong, too.

[watson]

:whs: :whs: :whs: :whs:

[Rifleman1776]

For repairing old chairs (not restoring valuable antiques), I have found ordinary round toothpicks to be a very important tool in my shop arsenal.
As said, clean, however you can, the old glue off. I'll use any good glue such as the Titebond mentioned, seat in hole, then in an inconspicuous spot, drill a small hole and glue in the toothpick as a dowel. Sand flush and use a drop of stain to match.
If the hole has enlarged from wiggle and wear, I use short lengths of toothpick to take up the extra space. Same with screw holes, I almost always insert a short piece of toothpick, add glue then rescrew.

[watson]

Bugger!!
Rifleman has discovered my low cost.....buy 'em by the thousands....2.5mm dowells with pointy ends.
Good things.
:rotfl:

[jimbur]

Hi Jenkinsr, is the white remnant of the glue really white or just a trick of the light? This was a period when manufacturers were trying new glues and varnishes, not all of which worked. I wondered if the original glue could be casein, a milk based one.
Nice looking chairs and a piece of history in themselves.
cheers,
Jim

[jenkinsr]

My strong recommendation for any piece of furniture with historical value is to use hide glue (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Animal_Hide_Glue/). Yes, it needs heating and preparing, it can smell, it's not a convenient 'squeeze and yer done' solution, but it has the delightful characteristic that it is a 100% reversible glue (warm water softens it). It's strong, too.

OK, thanks for the feedback. I see from other posts that I can use a wax melting pot from a beauticians kit to melt the glue, so that makes life a bit easier. Interesting stuff...

On investigation, Titebond make a product called Liquid Hide, which they say is the same stuff in a tube but with longer assembly time: Titebond Liquid Hide (http://www.titebond.com.au/products/index.htm)
Anyone have any thoughts/experiences with this one?


Hi Jenkinsr, is the white remnant of the glue really white or just a trick of the light? This was a period when manufacturers were trying new glues and varnishes, not all of which worked. I wondered if the original glue could be casein, a milk based one.
Nice looking chairs and a piece of history in themselves.
cheers,
Jim

It's a trick of the light Jim. The wood is quite pale and where it's been rubbing it's powdery white. The glue residue I can find is tan/brown and softens in steam. Unfortunately the steam also makes the finish bloom white and seems to break it down. I'm guessing it's Shellac or some sort of early lacquer.

I find the chairs comfortable, except the one where the seat is secured with completely inappropriate chipboard screws that poke through the cover into my ####.

[jimbur]

Does sound like hide glue, so if possible it's best to stick to it. (sorry didn't mean the pun).
Cheers,
JIm

[Manuka Jock]

The steam softened lacquer/shellac if left undisturbed to dry hard again , will probably polish up ok when the repairs are finished .
The mistake that a lot of folk often make with varnishes lacquers and shellacs when the finish has suffered a wet accident is to rush in to try and hide the water mark with furniture polish .The thing usual hides for a bit and then reappears.
If left to dry and harden up again , they tend to buff up ok without much heartache

[eskimo]

a crock pot is good for melting hide glue
i use a SS jar type container sitting in the water of the crock pot

works for me

as above if its been glued with hide, animal or pearl as it may also be called, stay with that

[Ian Smith]

I can use a wax melting pot from a beauticians kit to melt the glue.
eeeewww - those liitle "watch springs" can make a mess of your finish:D

[eskimo]

eeeewww - those liitle "watch springs" can make a mess of your finish:D

Keep your mind above your navel Ian...lol