Zenith screws!

[Nielsen]

Hi folks,

Just thought I would have a whinge following a product failure on the weekend. Was putting the final parts together of a chair I have been working with for a few months and foolishly used Zenith 65mm brass screws (normally I visit fastener specialists but had little option this time). The screws were meant to be visible from the surface and I was very careful to ensure that clearance holes were ample. The screws were coated in hard soap and I was very careful to tighten them by hand. Even after being super cautious I broke two of them when only 50% inserted, leaving the shanks broken inside the pieces. Now I have to find a way to get the shanks out (anyone got any advice?).

Anyway, I have learnt my lesson . Hope I have saved a few of you from the same frustration.

Len
EDITED POST Defamation of a company or its products is not a good idea.
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[cultana]

Hi folks,

Just thought I would have a whinge following a product failure on the weekend. Was putting the final parts together of a chair I have been working with for a few months and foolishly used Zenith 65mm brass screws (normally I visit fastener specialists but had little option this time). The screws were meant to be visible from the surface and I was very careful to ensure that clearance holes were ample. The screws were coated in hard soap and I was very careful to tighten them by hand. Even after being super cautious I broke two of them when only 50% inserted, leaving the shanks broken inside the pieces. Now I have to find a way to get the shanks out (anyone got any advice?).

Anyway, I have learnt my lesson. Hope I have saved a few of you from the same frustration.

Len

Over the weekend I

10 or 12 gauge screws?

Modern brass screws are butter and should be approach as such.
I find it smarter to drill the pilot hole full length. Also before even putting a brass screw in I use a steel screw of the same size and screw that in first. Then you can use the brass screw.

[Mr Brush]

Ditto - I'd always put in a steel screw of the same size/thread before trying to put in a brass* screw of any decent length. By that I mean anything > about 25mm !!

Also applies to stainless screws in my experience. I recently used some long Sachys square drive SS screws to repair popped boards on a deck, and they shear off too :(


* "brass" is an alloy of copper and cheese.....:rolleyes:

[Woodwould]

Brass screws are for boats! Most pilot hole/counterbore charts should be ignored as they are invariably for steel screws. Brass screws require much more generous holes which of course reduces their holding capacity – as does the screw material.

[Christopha]

In my experience products branded "Zenith" should probably be branded "Nadir"

[Lignum]

What kind of thread was it? If they were regular thread you need a full pilot hole the same dia as the screw shaft. Regular threads are useless in Aussie hardwood and worse if the screw is over 45mm or under 15mm. You need to use deep threaded screws that also have a cut away on the end (called a T-17) as they act as a type of pre-drill. 65mm its still advisable to pre drill but not as important if its a deep thread. . Also i find soap next to useless, soon as the screw heats up the soaps long gone. Wipe your screw across a paraffin wax block. :)

[Chief Tiff]

Getting the screws out is going to be interesting.

1: You can try to drill the old ones out using a drill bit of a slightly larger diameter than the inner screw shank. Try to use a drill press too for accuracy. When this fails......

2: Use a hollow drill bit. I've seen these advertised but can't remember where :rolleyes:. Basically it drills a hole around the screw; think of it like a really small plug cutter. Then you wack in a wooden plug and start again.

You've got to be so carefull with brass screws; I drill the pilot and clearance holes really carefully and use beeswax as a lubricant. I like the suggestion to use a steel screw first, haven't thought of that one for brass but I do use that principle when I'm using Sachy Robertson screws with my Kreg jig. Use a Kreg screw first to cut the thread, replace it with a Sachy Robertson. At some point I'll finally run out of the SR rubbish!

[weisyboy]

we have used brass screws in out boat about 4000 all up so far. we started using stainless but they would snap before tehy were 1/2 way in.

the screws rnged from 6 gauge 70mm down to 14 gauge 12mm. always pre drill but i dont bother with lubrication.

most zenith stuff it Crap..

[artme]

Anything I have used from Zenith seems to be made from a compound of Swiss Cheese and Blue Tack!

[Nielsen]

Thanks folks,

If only I had read your comments before I used the screws. Oh well - lesson learnt. I will try and extract the shanks on the weekend which might be challenging. Drilling out 10 gauge shanks appears to be difficult and there is no way to use a drill press because of the size of the piece. When I do get the damn things out I will revert to steel screws. Will be visiting some fastener shops instead of Bunnings.

Worth noting that I wrote to Zenith customer service telling them their screws are junk. Never got a reply. IMHO they don't stand by their products.


EDITED POST. Please read the forum rules regarding opinions on Companies or businesses.

[Claw Hama]

Sachys are good or go to your local boat chandlery and as said above be very generous with the pilot holes. If you stop and feel them and they are hot you're in trouble. I always use a scrape of bees wax on all screws I put in, steel or brass. The Sachys (Robertson Canadian) steel screws are awsome, I have snapped two of the large square drive heads off the drivers but never snapped a screw and I realy put the fetch on some of them.
Zenith are nothing but a joke and a bad one at that.

Neilsen, post a photo of the offending screws and we may be able to offer a sugestion on removal.

[mic-d]

There might be some useful info for you in this post (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/sheared-screws-15607/) re the sheared screws.
Cheers
Michael

[Lignum]

Not sure where the anti zenith stuff is coming from. :?

I use zenith screws all the time and apart from 15mm and under which are rubbish, i use 8-10# 20-50mm chipboard screws and never have an issue. And i only work in hardwood.

[Rattrap]

We use plenty of Zenith screws at the community shed mainly in hardwoods, mostly 8 & 10 gauge & while we do get the occasional snapped screw, its probably no more than 3 or 4 in every 100. They certainly aren't what you would call a good quality screw but i don't think they are any worse than any of the other cheap screws.

[Johncs]

You've got to be so carefull with brass screws; I drill the pilot and clearance holes really carefully and use beeswax as a lubricant. I like the suggestion to use a steel screw first, haven't thought of that one for brass but I do use that principle when I'm using Sachy Robertson screws with my Kreg jig. Use a Kreg screw first to cut the thread, replace it with a Sachy Robertson. At some point I'll finally run out of the SR rubbish!

On the weekend I wanted to screw some pieces of pinus horiblus to some chipboard, and decided to use 8G chipboard screws. I didn't trust these screws to drill throuigh pine, so I predrilled 3mm holes through the pine as appropriate for steel Zenith screws, and lubricated with WD40. Screwing through the pine was really easy.

I have read that WD40 clears away entirely, but in this case it's of no concern whether it does or not.