Grain filling and dye question

[jeremybnz]

Hi All,

I'm building a guitar with a hard ash body, i would like to dye it a dark green and finish it so the grain is filled, but reading lots about different methods but thought I should ask here how you all would approach it.

Keep in mind I would need to purchase the supplies here in New Zealand and grain fillers etc don't seem the readily available :-(

JB.

[RufflyRustic]

Have you seen any Timbermate Wood Putty or Cabots Wood Putty? Both can be used for grain filling.

cheers
Wendy

[jeremybnz]

Hi Wendy, yes I think my local bunnings has timbermate, I vaguely remember seeing it in the wood fillers section, I assume I'd need to use a water based dye on the wood after filling with it? could I oil the whole body once i'm done to finish it?

[jeremybnz]

I think i'd prefer to use a spirit based dye like the briwax ones for a deeper finish, this may limit my options filler wise, any suggestions?

[RufflyRustic]

I can only comment about Timbermate/Cabots putties and shellac with any certainty.

Here's one thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/repel-spots-water-based-lacquer-115629/index2.html#post1134444)that you may find useful, though you have to read it all to get the bits that seem to apply to your situation (from my point of view).

Another one (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/grain-filler-mahogany-guitar-115133/)

One (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/sanding-sealer-109609/)with good additional info on the differences between different brand's definition of sanding sealer

Another way is to grain fill with putty (or U-Beaut's Tripoli Powder (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/tripoli.htm)), apply water dye, a coat of shellac and then your oil, but I think that might not give you the finish you are looking for.:rolleyes:


that's a start anyway and I hope it just might give you enough info to help with your finish decision.

cheers
Wendy

PS - if possible always try your grain filling + dye/stain + finish on a test piece first.... just in case.....

I think I need to go read what I fondly call The Book of Finishing (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/book.html)again....:doh:

[jeremybnz]

Cheers for that, well I've got some white timbermate and some wattyl gel stain to try out, also some water based estapol gloss to go over the top, will test it on some test pieces and see how it looks :)

[Woodwould]

Cheers for that, well I've got some white timbermate and some wattyl gel stain to try out, also some water based estapol gloss to go over the top, will test it on some test pieces and see how it looks :)

You'll have to alternate between water-based and either spirit-based products. Timbermate is water-based and so, I believe, is the Wattyl stain. The water-based stain will smear/blend with the water-based filler and the water-based gloss will react with the both of them.

So, if retaining the Timbermate filler, I'd recommend an spirit-based stain followed by a seal coat of shellac and then either a water or oil-based clear coat.

[jeremybnz]

Interesting, the water based stain pack recommended to use the water based gloss, I thought the spirit based stains would remove the water based filler too?

[Woodwould]

Sorry, it can be confusing, "spirit" as in white spirit (turps substitute), not meths.

[jeremybnz]

Oh, its just the "spirit" dyes I've seen like Briwax are methanol based :-

[ian]

JB
I've had success with the Wattyl grain filler -- it's oil based and can be dyed with a spirit stain.
I got it from my local Bunnings
you need to follow the instructions when using it otherwise if you leave too much on the surface your sand paper will clog in a blink of an eye.

[jeremybnz]

Can you remember its exact product name Ian? I find theres so much stuff on the shelves at the big B!! :(

[ian]

This is the link to the Wattyl site
System Selector - Product Details (http://www.wattyl.net.au/WattylWebCS/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?id=899)
from memory it's a 375ml yellow tin

[jeremybnz]

Thanks Ian!! No luck at local bunnings tho' so I'm going with Briwax spirit based dyes, green and black, and their shellac sanding sealer as a buffer between them and some water based timbermate ebony filler diluted to use as a grain filler.

Have started testing with the dye on bare wood and getting some nice results, have also grain filled a section which I will sand back and then shellac, followed by the dye and see how it looks, am actually quite liking the open grain look at the moment tho', hmmmm...

Added different amounts of black to the green is the current main interest, to try and get the final colour I'm after, its looking pretty hot tho', not quite sure what final top coat will be, maybe shellac or laquer

[bassbuilderman]

I hope you guys (and gals) don't mind me reviving this post, but I have questions along similar lines and didn't want to start a new thread.

I am doing my first stain job on a guitar build. I have used Stewmac water base grain filler before with success, but this time I have been give some tinted grain filler by a
furniture finisher mate of mine. This stuff is rosewood tinted (Modostuc brand from Italy). I also have a dark purple stain. Timber is figured Qld maple.

I was going to stain bare wood then a coat of shellac then the tinted grain filler. However, this mate of mine says that you should grain fill first then sand then stain then shellac. His reasoning is to stain the filler to keep the finish uniform.

Any thoughts??

Michael

PS I'm not using spray equipment.