Thou Shalt Not Steal

[silentC]

I was arguing with my old man the other night on a topic that is forbidden on this board. I wont therefore go into the argument other than to say that it involved whether or not the 'Ten Commandments' were a useful tool for guiding people in their everyday lives - should they be taught in schools etc.

Leaving aside the issue of there actually being about three different sets of them, depending upon your persuasion, I suggested that such things were widely open to interpretation and what may seem black and white to one person may be grey to another.

Take for example the commandment "thou shalt not steal" (number 8 or 7 depending on which list you look at). The definition of stealing, or theft, is "the unauthorised taking or use of someone else's property with the intent to deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use". I suggested that this could equally apply to income tax - it all hinges upon what you understand by 'unathorised' and 'rightful possession'. Someone coming from a society that has no income tax might see it as theft in that sense.

So it's not enough to say "you should not steal" without also providing a definition of what stealing is - but the definition may differ depending upon the society in which you live. Our society is big on possessions and this is reflected in our laws but what about societies where there is no such thing as 'possessions'? Without possessions, there can be no theft, so where does "thou shalt not steal" leave them?

I'm not debating the validity of income tax, nor am I opening a religious debate. I was just interested in whether or not people believe these things are clear cut and perhaps why some people have a very clear sense of right and wrong and why others do not. Is this something that could be taught in schools, or is it just a 'hardwired' part of your personality.

[craigb]

Well I for one am not going to covet my neihgbour's ass :D

Seriuosly though, is this the nature v nurture debate?

My own opinion is it's up to your parents to teach you the difference between right and wrong.

[silentC]

Oh it's Ass! I always thought it was **** :D Now it all makes sense.

Come on, I'm trying to introduce a bit of philosophical discussion here, you know, raise the bar on the "So what's all this about ..." threads that we've been running lately. :rolleyes:

[Iain]

What was that story about the priest who had his bike stolen, he started to preach the ten commandments at his next sermon and remembered where he left it when he got to 'thou shalt not commit adultery'.

[silentC]

Seriuosly though, is this the nature v nurture debate?
Not really. It's more about whether there's a set of rules that always apply or whether anarchy is just below the surface. What holds it all together?

Looking at some of the stuff that goes on, not very much. We've got a family here that were 'relocated' from another town. There are 8 kids, mostly primary school age and under. They have so far demolished a toilet block, broken into several cars, houses and shops, and set fire to a house with someone in it. The father tells them what to steal and stands on guard to warn them if someone comes.

I didn't get this stuff drummed into me as a kid, so how come these guys have such a different idea to mine about what's acceptable and what's not?

[Alastair]

Come on, I'm trying to introduce a bit of philosophical discussion here, you know, raise the bar :rolleyes:

C'mon Silent,

Get real... this IS a woodworking BB isn't it? :D

Alastair

[craigb]

Not really. It's more about whether there's a set of rules that always apply or whether anarchy is just below the surface. What holds it all together?

Looking at some of the stuff that goes on, not very much. We've got a family here that were 'relocated' from another town. There are 8 kids, mostly primary school age and under. They have so far demolished a toilet block, broken into several cars, houses and shops, and set fire to a house with someone in it. The father tells them what to steal and stands on guard to warn them if someone comes.

I didn't get this stuff drummed into me as a kid, so how come these guys have such a different idea to mine about what's acceptable and what's not?

Well the sad fact of the matter is that breeds .

The fact that you were brought up properly by responsible people meant you didn't need to have it drummed into you. You knew what was acceptable and what wasn't. Quite possibly you may have even copped an occasional hiding for transgressing, which you probably deserved.

To go back to your biblical thing, you were pretty much taught to "do unto others"

Because of this background you are going to teach your own childdren the same or similar values, although I doubt that kids cop a hiding these days beacuse it's gone out of fashion, maybe rightly so.

However, the opposite is also true. Have the misfortune to be born into a family of scumbags and it's London to a brick that you'll turn out to be a scumbag yourself.

So I guess I'm saying it's nurture not nature thats the overriding influence on what sort of person you turn out to be.

Just my opinion of course.

Craig

[Termite]

I would like to think that the principles of right and wrong are taught in every household, however reality does suggest otherwise.
There is of course the fact that there are people out there who's regard for other peoples property is almost beyond belief. They don't even think like most of us, it's as though their brains are wired differently.
Then again as a noted dog expert once said "Most dogs are born rational, but now and again you get one born with the personality of Attila the Hun and there's nothing you can do to change them".
I must admit that a thief with a hand cut off is pretty drastic but then again can we afford to be ever increasingly considerate of criminals who dont give a damn about their victims. The courts seem to have forgotten that the punishment should fit the crime.

[vsquizz]

Its interesting you mention Tax and Theft in the same sentence.

I like the Pysche that pervails in that you try and minimise your tax. Can't hold that against someone can you. If you overstep the mark and get sprung well...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. What I can't stand is the companies who rip off masses of fringe benefits and when they get sprung they whinge and bleat like nothing on earth.

Teach your kids to accept responsibility for their actions. Its about the hardest thing to do in the current climes. When we are all dead and buried the world might be a better place.

Cheers

[silentC]

OK, here's another example. In most of the major religions, usury (lending money for profit) is prohibited. Yet this doesn't stop the majority of people from doing it anyway. Only the really strict ones observe it. So why is that 'rule' OK to break? Why is usury less morally wrong than stealing? Or is it?

See where I'm heading: income tax, interest? All evil and the work of the devil.

[jackiew]

The Jesuits have a saying " Give me a Child until the age of 7 and I'll show you the man" .

If you hear your parents gloating over all the things they've nicked, if your parents send you into shops to steal when you are too young to talk ( my mum has seen parents do this in London) then by the time you reach primary school age you're going to have a totally different attitude to people's property.

I continually surprise my boyfriend by pointing out unlocked cars, open windows with nice things lying within reach, things left lying around in people's gardens shouting "take me", "take me". I don't take them because I was brought up not to but I grew up in an area where the general consensus (sp?) was that if you were too stupid to secure it you were too stupid to keep it. Which means that mr and ms average wouldn't break your car window to take something but might well open your unlocked car door and take it.

Its all shades of grey.

[vsquizz]

Well if your an employee your PAYE Tax is being withheld by your employer or the Tax office. I'm a sole trader, I withhold my own tax all year and earn some interest the whole time:) , then I have to declare the interest and pay tax on it:mad: but you get my point. All you employees are getting thefted from:eek: . Somebody is doing something with your money in the mean time.

If you want a differnce of opinion MHO is that superannuation is the biggest form of legal theft going in this country.

Back to Law. Law without guidance and precedence is damm near useless as evidenced by some recently well published decisions. The judges ruled within the crap laws where as moraly most of us knew it was wrong.

You can find examples of Hypocracy in all forms and manners of the way societies/religions live. Don't take offence its just MHO and I'm happy for others to live under their household rules. Just don't come knocking on my door and try and shove them down my neck, when I need them I'll come looking.

Similarly if you climb over my back fence, knock my stuff off don't expect me to be sympathetic to your poor circumstances. I don't think there is too many people out there who don't actually know what is right and wrong, but it becomes habit. I am the first to admit I am no angel but I have to live with mistakes and try and do better. With some people it doesn't seem to bother them that they have done somebody else wrong. I'm with Termite, it aint genetic.


Cheers

[jackiew]

ATO is currently holding onto lots of people's super ( including some of mine ) and not paying it into their super funds - despite having all of the information needed to do this.

People affected are those who worked for companies who went into administration and paid out retrospectively a certain % in the dollar of monies owed to creditors. This money was handed over to the ATO who are currently sitting on it.

Apparently they will reimburse us whatever money we've lost from not having our money in our super funds ( hopefully ) earning for us. Which will be an interesting calculation that they needn't have done if they'd handed it over as soon as they received it. :mad:

[silentC]

Don't talk to me about super. My fund earned me $3000 odd last year. That didn't even cover admin fees, let alone contributions surcharge (a tax by any other name), and tax on earnings. If you're relying on super for when you retire, you'd better get used to Chum.

[outback]

Wer'e all doomed ,and the grim reaper is gonna come down on this thread and burn it.

In the mean time, regardless of your religious beliefs, if ya got 'em or not, if eveyone lived their lives using the ten commands as a basic set of rules the world would be a far better place.

P.S. I hate income tax, superannuation and workers comp.

[silentC]

if eveyone lived their lives using the ten commands as a basic set of rules
I, for one, am going to find it hard to rest on a Sunday, seeing as that's one of only two days a week I get to do anything ;)

[himzol]

Ummmm.... sorry to interupt but you guys have lost me .. again :confused:

Is this a discussion on good verses evil and whether it's inherited or taught,


income tax, interest? All evil and the work of the devil.

or a gripe about tax and the devil in canberra ( aka the taxman) :D

[bitingmidge]

Fluoridation.

That's what's caused everything.

Before they thought of putting fluoride in our water there was not one record of a DVD player or MP3 player being stolen.

True.

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[vsquizz]

Wer'e all doomed ,and the grim reaper is gonna come down on this thread and burn it.
Evil Giant with Axe will arrive in due course:D


In the mean time, regardless of your religious beliefs, if ya got 'em or not, if eveyone lived their lives using the ten commands as a basic set of rules the world would be a far better place.
So what if we start teaching a "PC" version of the 10 big ones in Grade 1?, or is it too late then.


P.S. I hate income tax, superannuation and workers comp.
Payroll Tax would have to be one of the biggest dis-incentives to employment I've ever come across.

Cheers

[bitingmidge]

Payroll Tax would have to be one of the biggest dis-incentives to employment I've ever come across.

Apart from sunny days when the surf's up!!

P
:D :D :D

[jackiew]

had to phone the ATO last week having decided that I needed a couple of their publications in order to complete my tax return.

nice man in their publications office said "doesn't exist" to the first two that I asked for but confirmed that

a) they were both mentioned in the tax pack on the pages I said and
b) they were on the ATO site under the NAT numbers I'd given and
c) in both places it did say contact his department to get hard copies ( especially the one that's 135 pages long)

but no he couldn't send me any because HIS computer system said the documents didn't exist.

I wonder if the tax man will wear me saying well I didn't fill in that section because I couldn't get hold of the documents to tell me what to put there!!!

[AlexS]

....I must admit that a thief with a hand cut off is pretty drastic but then again can we afford to be ever increasingly considerate of criminals who dont give a damn about their victims. The courts seem to have forgotten that the punishment should fit the crime.

Damn right! And as for those adulterers.....

[RETIRED]

:eek:
Wer'e all doomed ,and the grim reaper is gonna come down on this thread and burn it. Why?

In the mean time, regardless of your religious beliefs, if ya got 'em or not, if eveyone lived their lives using the ten commands as a basic set of rules the world would be a far better place. I Agree

P.S. I hate income tax, superannuation and workers comp.Same here.
The biggest problem I think is that a lot of people have lost respect for themselves hence no respect for others or their property.

I always try to treat people the way I would expect to be treated.

[TOMARTOM]

What if hypothetically I offered a ***** for free to someone on the bulletin board, and if they felt appropriatepay the $10.00 postage, (which they agreed to) and they kept the plane and did not pay the postage.
Would this be stealing?
Or is this just unfortunate.

regards tony

[TOMARTOM]

Please disregard my last post, it is all in the past. Forgotton until this topic came up, anyway, sometimes it is easier to give with little or no expectation from the other person, not always right ...........but easier.

regards tony

[vsquizz]

Please disregard my last post, it is all in the past. Forgotton until this topic came up, anyway,
regards tony
So this thread has a topic does it?

[bitingmidge]

So this thread has a topic does it?

I didn't think it did, which explains why it has been so damned hard to throw it off in another direction!

So Tomartom, you have been the victim of a plane hijacking it would seem, and lived to tell the tale!

Is hijacking a thread any different?

Personally I think that we should build a big motel and the bad buggers should all be made to live in it together, and not allowed out until they can recite the ten commandments.

Backwards.

In Swahili.

P
:D :D :D

[outback]

Poor , its just that I though Religion was a no no, and looking carefuylly we came close once or twice. Anyhow I like your philosophy, I try to do the same, must admit I stuff up pretty often.

[vsquizz]

Grandpa was a lifetime Rotarian. I always remember after he died (I was 11) Dad put his badge up on the shadow board in the shed and next to it a sign. It said:

"Do It Once, Do it Well, Build a Better Australia"

Never forgotten that and I aint a rotarian. Seems it was good enough for the old boy....just something I thought of.


Cheers

[TOMARTOM]

I do not feel that I "highjacked a thread, I however do or should I say did recognise that the comments were inappropriate and not in the 'spirit of this forum' and immediately asked, my previous comments to be retracted.
Hardly do I feel that I hijacked a thread, I have (if you choose to look at previous posts) been a supportive, long term contributer to these forums and certainly appreciated the dialogue in return.


kind regards
tony

[Caliban]

Ok
Time for my 2c worth. I've kept out until now, so you've all ahd your chance.
1. These are not the best of times, but there the only times we've got.
2. Nature and or nurture are to blame equally.
3. I worked in some pretty easy schools and some pretty darn tough ones, and the song remains the same, kids will muck up as much as you let them.
Same with a society, people will obey laws if those laws make sense to them eg. people will drive at a sensible speed on a strange road even if there is not a policeman for miles, why? because it makes sense. People also will disobey a law that seems stupid to them. Also people will break rules if the punishments are given arbitrarily (like drink driving punishments) or if there is any sign of weakness in the authority.
4. I've taught in two different schools in this town for nearly fifteen years now and the difference is astounding. The kids are the same, they eat the same food, drink the same (soon to be flouridated) water, and have essentially the same socio economic backgrounds. The difference is the expectations placed on them, where I work now the kids know the consequences are certain. They don't have to be severe, just certain. That, I think, is the answer. Start with your own family and community and don't expect others to do the disciplining. is right, it all starts with self respect and self discipline.
5. Recently I bought some mujingfang planes through CraigB who bought them and sent them to me and I sent him the money. I never thought of not paying and he never thought of not sending them. We respected each other enough as users of this BB and as people who share a hobby to not try anything fishy. Does this mean I'm a good person or a self interested ar3ehole who is only out to protect his reputation on this BB? Possibly either answer. I'd prefer to think the former. I know my mum would kill me if she thought I'd ever stolen anything, the same as I made my kids take back the macdonalds tray they were very proud of having.
6. The very fact that we spend so much time on such a topic is proof that we aren't all bad. But is teasing others like we are wont to do also bad???
In that case I'm a real sinner, and therefore better stop ranting, sorry about the long diatribe. :)

[John Saxton]

Don't forget the 11th commandment "Thou shall pay thy taxes until the river Styx calls"

Cheers :)

[TOMARTOM]

Your right, Hovo
I think you have taught me something..
I will remove the bucket of stones from my computer...........
thanks

[silentC]

I want to counter the wild accusations being made that this thread does not have a topic. I want to, but I can't. There is a topic, I just don't know what it is yet.

How about another one: thou shalt not kill. We all know that killing someone is wrong, don't we? But this seems only to apply to people. It's perfectly OK to kill animals, sometimes we do it for fun. So what's the difference? We also spend a lot of time killing people during wars. These have often been fought on religious grounds. Why is it OK to do that but you can't shoot someone for breaking into your house? Are the soldiers who fight for their country doing something wrong?

I think the topic might be something to do with paradoxes but I can't be sure.

[bitingmidge]

What about killing someone softly with a song?

Is that OK?

P

[jackiew]

was listening to the radio last night and one of the guys chatting away said that some churches have changed "thou shalt not kill" to "though shalt not murder".

[silentC]

Are they allowed to change the rules like that? Aren't they carved in stone somewhere? :confused:

[jackiew]

My understanding is that the christian religions are based upon translations of documents that were written in another language a long time ago.

Anything that is translated is capable of reinterpretation ... translators are people too and their translations will be the result of their own backgrounds, beliefs, knowledge of their own language and knowledge of the language they are interepreting from ( and possibly how much someone is paying them to put a certain spin on the words :eek: ).

As not many of us are capable of reading these documents in the original it would be fairly difficult to say whether the change is valid.... and there is of course the assumption that the original language had both words and that they meant EXACTLY the same to the writer as they do to us.

[DaveInOz]

Exactly Jackie.

Translation is something to think about when interpreting any writing from a different language, culture or even time.
A powerful example (that I in no way have an opinion on one way or the other) is that until recently words for unmarried woman and virgin were interchangeable in many languages (consider 'maiden'). Consider the implications, world wide, if the mother of Christ was described as the maiden Mary ..... was it a miracle or a sin? The fact it has been translated as virgin could be because the translator assumed that she was holy?

As I said I don't know or care either way, but WOW think about the impact it would have. :eek:

BTW I don't want to drag this thread in to articals of faith and the denial of faith by proof etc.

[Rocker]

I think there is a good deal of sense in the views of Peter Singer, the famous, or notorious, Australian philosopher, who teaches at Princeton. Rather than following absolute prescriptive rules, like the Ten Commandments, he suggests that one should take the big picture and try to act so as to bring the greatest good to the most people. His views sometimes lead to conclusions that may seem morally repugnant to some, like his advocacy of euthanasia for severely disabled infants, but, on the whole I think they are sensible.

When it comes to killing animals, it is hard to see where to draw the line. Is it wrong to kill bilbies and koalas, but OK to kill termites and mosquitoes? And how far down the evolutionary scale do you go? Albert Schweitzer thought it wrong to kill ants, but I presume he would not have minded killing bacteria.

Rocker

[Eastie]

Im not sure why you would want to kill a koala, they taste crap.

[vsquizz]

Is it wrong to kill bilbies and koalas, but OK to kill termites and mosquitoes?
Rocker
I'd change that to white ants:D

Cheers

[silentC]

Im not sure why you would want to kill a koala, they taste crap.

It's just the way they look at you out the corner of their eye. I don't trust the buggers.

Yes, I favour a utilitarian approach to things in general - whatever does the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Unfortunately it's unpleasant to be on the wrong side of a utilitarian decision. I would not like to be a hostage in Iraq for instance.

[vsquizz]

Its the nature of the Human Beast, to feather ones own nest. If there is no strong policeman the rules get bent/buckled/fettled and broken to suit ones needs. It happens, and sometimes for the better good. Laws need to be upgraded from time to time, its called evolution ...no maybe thats going to far.

Or the rules can just stay static. Some religious organisations have grabbed a hold of their internal problems, kicked aside a traditional veil of silence and got on with it. Others are still being dragged, kicking and screaming into the 21 st century. Not a religious debate just an example of what the true topic of this thread is about.

Anyway, where was I. Thou shalt not kill Koalas???. I sorry but if I step out the back door and squash an ant well...All living things make an impact, like the bugs on your windshield....wheres this going...Oh bugger.

Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't - you are right. Henry Ford


Cheers

[gemi_babe]

Well the sad fact of the matter is that breeds .

The fact that you were brought up properly by responsible people meant you didn't need to have it drummed into you. You knew what was acceptable and what wasn't. Quite possibly you may have even copped an occasional hiding for transgressing, which you probably deserved.

To go back to your biblical thing, you were pretty much taught to "do unto others"

Because of this background you are going to teach your own childdren the same or similar values, although I doubt that kids cop a hiding these days beacuse it's gone out of fashion, maybe rightly so.

However, the opposite is also true. Have the misfortune to be born into a family of scumbags and it's London to a brick that you'll turn out to be a scumbag yourself.

So I guess I'm saying it's nurture not nature thats the overriding influence on what sort of person you turn out to be.

Just my opinion of course.

Craig

Well said and I agree....:)

[gemi_babe]

Have written a reply so many times, but I keep going off onto religion and it makes me mad, so I agree'd with craig, cause he said what I was thinking in a nice way....:p

but my last words are


without religion the world would be a happier place...
It's in the bible, that religion will die... jehova's read it to me cause they agree'd with me when they came knocking on my door...

see off I go ....

LOL

[Iain]

BUt religion offers moral standards that politics fail to deliver..........
and I'm not a God botherer.

[bitingmidge]

To go back to your biblical thing, you were pretty much taught to "do unto others"

Gemi had me going back and re-reading Craig's post, and of course if he hadn't been asleep in Sunday School, would have continued on with the quote above, it would have read:

"Do unto others, AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU which if we all did, would probably put an end to this thread!

Cheers,

P (Fortunate to have been born a nice person, but strays occasionally!)
:D :D :D

[vsquizz]

which if we all did, would probably put an end to this thread!
:D :D :D

:eek: :eek: Gads, Pete the budding administrator.


Fair is foul and foul is fair:


Hover through the fog and filthy air.

<CENTER></CENTER>
Macbeth I, i, 1

[craigb]

Gemi had me going back and re-reading Craig's post, and of course if he hadn't been asleep in Sunday School, would have continued on with the quote above, it would have read:

"Do unto others, AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU which if we all did, would probably put an end to this thread!

Cheers,

P (Fortunate to have been born a nice person, but strays occasionally!)
:D :D :D

Midge,

That bit was implied ;)

I used to jig Sunday school.

Craig (The heathen)

[Ben from Vic.]

I vote for the Ten Comandments.

The world would be a much better place if they were adheard to.


Ben.

[silentC]

Out of curiosity, how many people actually know what they are?

[Ben from Vic.]

Yesir, this is them.


Exodus 20: (front of the bible)

1. And God spoke all these words, saying:
2. "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3. "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
5. you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6. but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7. "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9. Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10. but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
11. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12. "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
13. "You shall not murder.
14. "You shall not commit adultery.
15. "You shall not steal.
16. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."


No. 15 "You shall not steal" seems pretty clear to me.

Ben.

[silentC]

So if we taught them in schools, how would a Hindu kid get on with number 3? (actually number 1 - what's with the numbering there?)

BTW this is only one version of them - and a fairly modern one by the look. There are 3 others that I have seen.

[himzol]

I though it may have been the ten comandments in Hex but there are too many. :D

[vsquizz]

Was the bit about the donkey really necassary:rolleyes:

Cheers

[himzol]

Was the bit about the donkey really necassary

Squizzy, Is there something we should know? :eek:

[Slavo]

So if we taught them in schools, how would a Hindu kid get on with number 3? (actually number 1 - what's with the numbering there?)

BTW this is only one version of them - and a fairly modern one by the look. There are 3 others that I have seen.

The numbering are the verses, so that passage would be Exodus Chapter 20 verses 1 - 17. So commandment #1 is verse 3. [NB. The original texts did not have this numbering but are put in for ease of reference]

There are a range of different versions/translations of the bible and each try to strike a balance between readability for todays reader and faithfulness to the original text. Problem is that some versions simplify the text so much that they (intentionally or unintentionally) distort the original text/concepts to a point where they are heresy.

The Hindu kid or adult or anyone who reads them is faced with a personal decision - their response is to either accept it as a truth or reject it.

[vsquizz]

Squizzy, Is there something we should know? :eek:
There's lots of things better off not known:D but that would be another thread about rights of disclosure/privacy an big brother stuff.

And there aint one wat sez "thou shalt not think things" :D :D

I'll leave that up to your imagination. :eek:

I just wonder if there was an issue with coveting thy neighbours donkey in days gone by.:) The mind boggles.



The Hindu kid or adult or anyone who reads them is faced with a personal decision - their response is to either accept it as a truth or reject it.

Rather than truth what about as a good guideline for living your life. From my travels and limited theological knowledge it seems that there is many common thread through the three major religions. It may be presented in a different fashion but nonetheless there are core commonalities and "Thy shalt not kill" is one of them, the Koran and Budhism having various strings or further guidance attached. Haven't read anything about Koala's though.


Cheers

[silentC]

Rather than truth what about as a good guideline for living your life
This is what I'm getting at. Do we need something to tell us what is right or wrong and if we do, is it possible to phrase it in such a way that it allows for all the different belief systems and cultures without making some of them (or all of them but one) look morally inadequate?

[echnidna]

With the barbarous activities that go on in some parts of the world a sound moral code is essential , so yes we do need the 10 commandments or coiunterparts in whatever form or religion that is relevant.

[ozwinner]

Yesir, this is them.


Exodus 20: (front of the bible)

1. And God spoke all these words, saying:
2. "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3. "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
5. you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6. but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7. "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9. Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10. but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
11. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12. "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
13. "You shall not murder.
14. "You shall not commit adultery.
15. "You shall not steal.
16. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."


No. 15 "You shall not steal" seems pretty clear to me.

Ben.Geez, sounds like your god needs to lighten up.
And he was a Sepo, as neighbour is spelt the Sepo way.

Al :)

[Ben from Vic.]

Geez, sounds like your God needs to lighten up.
And he was a Sepo, as neighbour is spelt the Sepo way.

Al :)

:)

[Caliban]

Was the bit about the donkey really necassary:rolleyes:

Cheers

That was old school, we'd have to update it with
"thou shalt not covet...or his 12'' sliding table saw with scribing blade and full dust extraction system and suva guard" :D :D :D
donkeys are so last year. Really!

[vsquizz]

There's an Ox mentioned in there too. :eek: :eek: :D

Cheers

[Caliban]

Probably needs replacing with some sort of cordless screw driver!