Pics and Q's for Beeswax on raw pine

[davidjameshse]

Hi there,

We’ve got a new pine table and my wife used Ron Disney pure bees wax (http://rondisneysales.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_12&products_id=2) polish (bunnings) on the raw pine following the directions to rub on one coat with steel wool . She's from the UK and this is what they do there with pine so copied here. I'm worried that this was a mistake :no:

I ate my breakfast on there yesterday morning the day after the polish and the plate left rings on the table as can be seen in the photos attached, maybe there was a bit of water on the underside of the plate but surprised that freshly waxed wood would do that?!?!.

I’m wondering if we needed to prepare the wood first or did something wrong?

Do we need to add another coat or strip it back and start again with something else?

Really hoping someone can give us advice on this!

Thanks,

David

[tea lady]

Bee's wax polish is kind of soft. Something with a Canuba wax component would be better. Also I would probably seal the wood with white shellac first so that the wax didn't just sink into the wood. White shellac won't turn the pine as yellow as normal shellac or varnish would. Don't know what you do from this point though. :shrug: Someone who know will probably be along shortly.:cool:

[davidjameshse]

Thanks TeaLady.

Guessing we might need to remove the first coat of Beeswax with turps before sealing with shellac then Carnuba...

[tea lady]

Thanks TeaLady.

Guessing we might need to remove the first coat of Beeswax with turps before sealing with shellac then Carnuba...Maybe! You probably need to read a book about it or something. :shrug: Or read U-Beautes Polishing handbook.:cool:

[ubeaut]

Wash the top down with plenty of turpentine and clean absorbent rags which are turned regularly to pull off all the turps and wax.

Sand the table with fine abrasive up to 600 grit or finer.
Apply a coat or two of weak dewaxed white shellac (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/dewaxed.html) which won't mark as easily as other shellacs.
Use a good wax (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/trad.html) that has carnauba wax in it.

Beeswax will work if it has lots and lots of coats but mostly it's just too soft and easy to mark up. Better as an upkeep wax over a hard finish.

All waxes need regular upkeep applications to keep them looking their best and all will mark with heat prolonged wetness, alcohol. etc but can usually be fixed with new application or a good polish reviver (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/reviver.html).

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil :U

[tea lady]

:C Hesitating to disagree with U-Beaut, but I think 600# is a bit fine for pine. Too fine if you are turning certainly. Maybe OK for hand sanding along the grain on a table top. :shrug: The finish has trouble going in. :C On pine at least. Other woods you can go finer.:cool::)

[m2c1Iw]

Belgrave....home of the brave. :D

Serious question, what do mean by the finish has trouble going in. I have Neils book and read it and I thought sanding down through the grits as fine as practical was the necessary ground work for a nice smooth finish. Call me a masochist but I have 1200 and use it......well sometimes:rolleyes::U

[ubeaut]

600 - 800 grit on pine, coat of Sanding Sealer (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/sandseal.htm), 1200 grit and you won't get a better base for a fine finish that will work up to an amazing final finish no matter what you use over the top including polyurethane, shellac, lacquer, danish oil, and almost anything else including good wax.

:U

[tea lady]

600 - 800 grit on pine, coat of Sanding Sealer (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/sandseal.htm), 1200 grit and you won't get a better base for a fine finish that will work up to an amazing final finish no matter what you use over the top including polyurethane, shellac, lacquer, danish oil, and almost anything else including good wax.

:UMight change my signature.:cool::D

I will have a go at this finish on my little "Tabouret" project which is also in pine. The "teacher" reckons only 120# is necessary. And I've snuck up to 240# as it is. :oo::C Its alright though. He somehow knows I'm a trouble maker. :rolleyes: I'll tell him "Neil said!".:cool::D

[tea lady]

Belgrave....home of the brave. :D

Serious question, what do mean by the finish has trouble going in. I have Neils book and read it and I thought sanding down through the grits as fine as practical was the necessary ground work for a nice smooth finish. Call me a masochist but I have 1200 and use it......well sometimes:rolleyes::UI think its only with turning. It seems if you sand too finely on pine the pours get filled with sawdust and the finish has trouble going in. :shrug: Or maybe I have been delusional. Anyway, my theory is that its kinda like the pixels on a computer and picture resolution. If your grits smaller than the pour size its not gonna do much.

Tea lady- the brave.:D

[m2c1Iw]

Might change my signature.:cool::D

I will have a go at this finish on my little "Tabouret" project which is also in pine. The "teacher" reckons only 120# is necessary. And I've snuck up to 240# as it is. :oo::C Its alright though. He somehow knows I'm a trouble maker. :rolleyes: I'll tell him "Neil said!".:cool::D

Go all the way and french polish after staining. Make it look like a mahogany heirloom. It's worth the effort not only for the result but on a smallish piece like your table it would be good practice for the bombe chest of drawers to come.:2tsup:

Ah apologies to David getting off the track.

[RufflyRustic]

I've found with pine that the only way to get a fantastic finish is to go all the way through the grits up to the highest I have in stock. Sanding sealer, U-Beaut's shellac and then some Traditional Wax is one of my stock standard finishes because it always works, though the runs in the shellac are purely my fault:rolleyes:

[Horsecroft88]

Yep have to agree with the advice given re the finishing process, and I have restored and polished a heck of a lot of pine joinery and antique furniture , as well as cedar, oak, blackwood etc over the past 20 + years. Though i have to admit to never having used the U-beaut products yet, as I wasn't aware of them until I joined this forum a little while ago.

The one thing I can comment on is that if you were not to go above a sandpaper grit of 240, the finish will definitely be far too coarse/rough.

The thing is that by going through the various grades progressively getting finer, and coating between you actually are not just sanding the timber but as well the polish layers as you build up and so hence the finish gets finer. And don't worry, the coats of finish will adhere to the previous ones.

The alternative of course to using really fine sand paper is to use ultra fine grade steel wool as this too will give you the desired level of fine finish to which thereafter you can wax.

Locally I have never seen any sandpaper finer than about 600 grade. But perhaps I am not looking at the correct type of papers, as I always use the same ones I use for plastering as I do for wood. They work better from my experience.. Obviously, others might disagree. :D

[m2c1Iw]

Locally I have never seen any sandpaper finer than about 600 grade. But perhaps I am not looking at the correct type of papers, as I always use the same ones I use for plastering as I do for wood. They work better from my experience.. Obviously, others might disagree. :D

3M Wetordry. Tend to be a bit harder to find try automotive refinisher suppliers they go to 2500 if you want to be silly about it.

[ubeaut]

A lot of the finish to 180 grit comes from the time when the finisher did the finish and not the turner or cabinet maker. The basic work and base sanding was done then getting the finish up to scratchh was the job of the finisher. who would all sorts of things to it from filling the grain with plaster of paris, etc. It's only been in later times that fine abrasives have been readily available.

There's a lot more to a good finish than meets the eye, especially if you aren't applying thin sprayed on or brushed coats of plastic.

Cheers - Neil :U

PS Steel wool shouldn't be used as a fine abrasive on raw timber. Fine over a finish, great on metal (which it's made for)

[tea lady]

Well! I sanded my little table top too 400# cos that's what I have. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Silky. Been rubbing on shellac. Tricky stuff isn't it. Might have to get serious about rubbers and stuff.:rolleyes: And have to get me some Traditional wax. But heh! I'm sold. :U

[Horsecroft88]

With all due respect Neil to your expert knowledge, the use of coarse grade steel wool is the perfect medium when paint stripping wood with a painted surface to clean off the paint stripper and dead paint to get back to raw wood. Ditto, I usually clean off with either warm soapy water and/or with metho to neutralise the acid of the paint stripper and steel wool to get the final residual muck off.

Then obviously one needs to go through the various grades of sandpaper, and applying which ever finishing product one chooses. I only use ultra fine steel wool on coated timber (say more than 8 coats of shellac) before bees wax polishing or on the odd occasion have steel wooled down and waxed a finished tung oil surface to dull it off slightly.

I do agree that steel wool is no good as a sanding medium on raw wood.

[Horsecroft88]

Well! I sanded my little table top too 400# cos that's what I have. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Silky. Been rubbing on shellac. Tricky stuff isn't it. Might have to get serious about rubbers and stuff.:rolleyes: And have to get me some Traditional wax. But heh! I'm sold. :U

It sure can be but once you have mastered the finish, you wouldn't really want to use anything else on old wood. Silky smooth when you get it right for sure. Definitely use a decent wax as that is the final glory. Have fun.

[ubeaut]

Horsecroft88 - I have no problem with using course steel wool in stripping in fact I wholwheartedly recommend for this use. Don't have a problem with it being used over a finish.

What I said was: Steel wool shouldn't be used as a fine abrasive on raw timber.

Cheers - Neil :U

[Horsecroft88]

Horsecroft88 - I have no problem with using course steel wool in stripping in fact I wholwheartedly recommend for this use. Don't have a problem with it being used over a finish.

What I said was: Steel wool shouldn't be used as a fine abrasive on raw timber.

Cheers - Neil :U

Hi Neil that is fine, I was just trying to clarify where it should be used or not. I don't disagree with you re not using it as an abrasive and/or especially on raw timber. Cheers Dave