Need help understanding this recipe ...please.

[JDarvall]

Its a glazing recipe for oil paintings, that I want to try. But where do you get the ingredients ? Willing to give the recipe a go minus a couple of ingredients just to see what happens. but really, I don't have a clue.


9 parts damar varnish (5 lb. cut)
9 parts turpentine
4 parts stand oil
2 parts Venice turpentine

As a start ? what Australian product resembles ....damar varnish and stand oil.

cause apparently .......This medium gives your paint a translucent quality. The light can still transmit through it and bounce back from the underpainting and primer ground. ........the lady wrote.

Is there a product you know of already out there that I can buy off the shelf that already does that ? save me having to mix it all up.

appreciate any help.
Jake

[JDarvall]

Read just now that stand oil can be made by heating linseed oil to 315C. or let raw linseed oil sit around for a year or two ( can't realllly wait that long)

[Woodwould]

Unless you're actually painting in oils and are after a specific effect, you'd be better off with any good pre-packed oil medium. Stand oil is just polymerised linseed oil, but as with BLO, there is an ambiguous modern method of manufacture which is frankly a waste of money. True stand oil is rare these days (though can be made by anyone not in a hurry for it). Have you thought of using another type of oil?

All the ingredients you list can be had at any good artist's shop.

[JDarvall]

ta.

I'm into a different effect. thought I may find something.

artist shop ingredients worry me though. cost a fortune.

I've used tung and linseed in varying proportions. Realised the importance in getting the linseed in there for colour and conceeded to putting up with the slow drying times. big proportion of linseed I feels needed for depth and to unify the differing timbers I use in a chair.

excited at the look of deep refraction etc and whathaveyou that was described there. Thought it be worth a go to learn something new.

[groverwa]

In my TAFE art days the lecturer made comment about freezing linseed oil to remove the water. I do not know how this works but would expect the water as ice or slurry to be under the oil anf the oil can be poured off. Keep doing the process until there is no water left but thicker oil than you started with

Hope this helps

Mike

[JDarvall]

In my TAFE art days the lecturer made comment about freezing linseed oil to remove the water. I do not know how this works but would expect the water as ice or slurry to be under the oil anf the oil can be poured off. Keep doing the process until there is no water left but thicker oil than you started with

Hope this helps

Mike

It does thanks Mike. I'll give it a go and see what happens. ta.

[Black Cat]

But what is Damar varnish? I am intrigued.

I plan to use a home-made paint involving linseed oil, egg and water that promises a good deep effect - but probably not the luminosity yours offers. Coloured with earth oxides (available from your local concrete store) and toned down with slaked lime I am hoping it will give me a good textured look without the bumpy bits that a real texture would achieve.

[Big Shed]

Dammar gum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dammar_gum)

http://www.sanders-studios.com/instruction/tutorials/modernapplications/medium.html

[Woodwould]

But what is Damar varnish? I am intrigued.

I plan to use a home-made paint involving linseed oil, egg and water that promises a good deep effect - but probably not the luminosity yours offers. Coloured with earth oxides (available from your local concrete store) and toned down with slaked lime I am hoping it will give me a good textured look without the bumpy bits that a real texture would achieve.
Damar is a natural resin obtained from a family of tropical trees. It's used as a glaze for food stuffs (as is shellac) and it's soluble in turpentine which is how it becomes a varnish. It has specific uses in oil painting as a final gloss and paint hardener.

I wouldn't use mortar colouring oxides (they're man-made and not natural earth oxides or pigments) for mixing paints or furniture finishes. They are extremely coarse (cement doesn't require finely ground particles) and not nearly as opaque as artist's pigments. Artist's pigments may appear dear on the face of it, but they do go a long way because they're so finely ground.

[Black Cat]

Thanks for the link and the heads up on the oxides. I will look into artists oxides when I am about to start work - might be a better colour range to choose from too!!:U

Will find a use for the bags of oxides i have, I am sure.

[ian]

Jake

what effect are you after?

the description you quote sounds a lot like it's the oil painting equivalent of a timber pore (grain) filler -- the oily stuff bulked out with talc or very finely ground silica -- note I'm not talking about a filler like Timbermate.

If it is and you want to give it a go Wattyl sells a version in 375ml cans.

[JDarvall]

Jake

what effect are you after?

the description you quote sounds a lot like it's the oil painting equivalent of a timber pore (grain) filler -- the oily stuff bulked out with talc or very finely ground silica -- note I'm not talking about a filler like Timbermate.

If it is and you want to give it a go Wattyl sells a version in 375ml cans.

It may well be nothing special. Its just a knee jerk reaction to what the lady wrote...

This medium gives your paint a translucent quality. The light can still transmit through it and bounce back from the underpainting and primer ground.

See I use milk paint on some of my chairs. It seems the more popular ones are those that are painted in places and rubbed back. sometime I nail this affect from just the process of trying things, not liking it, rubbing back, over and over. Its something that a painter does a lot until he's happy what he's done. End up with a lot of interesting depth. after all that I do my usual linseed/tung oil coats, wax etc..... just thought if I keep trying different recipes I may come accross something else appealing.

thinking at the moment, is freezing raw linseed like Mike mentioned above to make stand oil, and just apply that to see what it looks like.......just giving myself an education Ian.

[Woodwould]

See I use milk paint on some of my chairs. It seems the more popular ones are those that are painted in places and rubbed back.
<!--[endif]-->
Ahhh, now I understand what you're up to. Any antique painted chairs (Windsor or japanned) that I've encountered weren't painted with milk paint; they used an oil-based paint.

I would use oil paint and dilute it by very gradually stirring in BLO until you have a semi-transparent glaze. Brush the glaze thinly and evenly onto your chair and using a big, tightly-rolled pad made from an old T-shirt, wipe off the excess in the areas where a chair would normally be worn by bums, hands, arms and backs. Wait a day or so until the glaze has dried and then repeat the process until the desired depth and opacity is reached. Seal it all with one or two coats of BLO or button polish.

[JDarvall]

<!--[endif]-->
Ahhh, now I understand what you're up to. Any antique painted chairs (Windsor or japanned) that I've encountered weren't painted with milk paint; they used an oil-based paint.

I would use oil paint and dilute it by very gradually stirring in BLO until you have a semi-transparent glaze. Brush the glaze thinly and evenly onto your chair and using a big, tightly-rolled pad made from an old T-shirt, wipe off the excess in the areas where a chair would normally be worn by bums, hands, arms and backs. Wait a day or so until the glaze has dried and then repeat the process until the desired depth and opacity is reached. Seal it all with one or two coats of BLO or button polish.

sounds like another way to try. different to what I do. But always looking for new ideas. thanks mate. Whats button polish again ?

maybe there's another difference between pommy chairs and american chairs. paint. Pretty sure the yanks been using milk paint for centurys. anyway, mustn't talk about american chairs too much around you :wink:

[Woodwould]

sounds like another way to try. different to what I do. But always looking for new ideas. thanks mate. Whats button polish again ?

maybe there's another difference between pommy chairs and american chairs. paint. Pretty sure the yanks been using milk paint for centurys. anyway, mustn't talk about american chairs too much around you :wink:

Button polish is just another variety of shellac with a cloudy amber hue which does a nice job of aging surfaces. Garnet polish is similar.

As far as I know, milk paint has only been used on American chairs since about the mid 19th century. It's not a traditional finish, but caught people's imagination during a Windsor revival at a time when one or two large US chain stores began selling painted chairs.

[jmk89]

there is a view that there never was anything called milk paint. There was paint or there was whitewash. If it has milk in it, it is whitewash (even if it also has oil and pigment, it is still whitewash) and if it doesn't have milk in it, it is paint.
Most people think something is milk paint because it has a chalky surface and is hard to shift - apparently if you test these - it will be paint (ie no milk, just pigment and oil) and the chalkiness is oxidisation of the (often lead-based) pigments in the paint. Whitewash was used on furniture, sometimes, but most of the time our forebears used paint if they could - hence the saying "Too poor to paint, to proud to whitewash".

Stephen Shepherd talks about it in this podcast (http://mattsbasementworkshop.com/spoken-wood-podcast-no15/)

I don't know if this is true, but it's all interesting stuff.

[jmk89]

Sounds like WW and Stephen Shepherd agree - milk paint is a modern invention

[Woodwould]

Shephard is quite definitive! I do concur with regard to the paint found on pre-19th century furniture; it consisted of white lead ground in oil (for the body), to which was added the pigment of choice. Modern oil-based household paint such as you'd buy at any paint store or Bunnings etc. is a more accurate substitute than what's sold as milk paint.

Applying straight oil paint and sanding it through is what's normally done commercially to achieve an 'antique' look, but this method is unconvincing because it doesn't exhibit the subtle feathered edges that occur with decades of people handling and sitting in the chairs. Building it up in layers and rubbing off the highlights as you go is a more time-consuming but realistic process.

The secret to duplicating any type of old finish, is to closely examine a known original, not another example which has been faked with incorrect materials.

[JDarvall]

You maywell be right. In which case I'm wrong....the impression I've got is its been used forever. Made sense because I could see old milk being an easily obtained material back then. ....not convinced I'm wrong anyway from what I've read .

When I go ahead to finish a chair, I try to make it look as appealing as can be, with what ever I enjoying doing at the time. Not duplicating anything. Not trying to pretend any chair or another to be an antique and flog it as such. I don't set out with that in mind. Like colour in places....etc etc etc. I'll try it.

[Woodwould]

You maywell be right. In which case I'm wrong....the impression I've got is its been used forever. Made sense because I could see old milk being an easily obtained material back then. ....not convinced I'm wrong anyway from what I've read .

When I go ahead to finish a chair, I try to make it look as appealing as can be, with what ever I enjoying doing at the time. Not duplicating anything. Not trying to pretend any chair or another to be an antique and flog it as such. I don't set out with that in mind. Like colour in places....etc etc etc. I'll try it.
:2tsup:

[ubeaut]

The effect you mention is one I'll be demonstration at the Working With Wood Shows this year. The translusant evvect can be obtained by having a white wood base or spraying a white base then coing over it with a very dark (almost black colour of your choice) glaze or shellac. eg dark almost black green universal tint mixed into either regular or white shellac painted on then when dry rubbed bacl with steel wool. The rubbing back is done carefully over moldings and will give al look like glass that is thinner in sections so will show colour fron pale green right through to almost black.

Prety simplistic explanation. Needs to be seen to get the full affect which is pretty bloody good.

By the way, damar varnish is available but usually only in large quantities if you don't want to get it from art supplier, same with stand oils both long or short is available but again only in larger quantities. There are easier, more modern and far better ways of getting what you require.

:U

[JDarvall]

The effect you mention is one I'll be demonstration at the Working With Wood Shows this year. The translusant evvect can be obtained by having a white wood base or spraying a white base then coing over it with a very dark (almost black colour of your choice) glaze or shellac. eg dark almost black green universal tint mixed into either regular or white shellac painted on then when dry rubbed bacl with steel wool. The rubbing back is done carefully over moldings and will give al look like glass that is thinner in sections so will show colour fron pale green right through to almost black.

Prety simplistic explanation. Needs to be seen to get the full affect which is pretty bloody good.

By the way, damar varnish is available but usually only in large quantities if you don't want to get it from art supplier, same with stand oils both long or short is available but again only in larger quantities. There are easier, more modern and far better ways of getting what you require.

:U

sounds tops mate. wouldn't happen to have a picture handy ? be much better no doubt seeing it in person, but doubt I'll be able to make it to the show. don't get out much.

reackon that idea of Mikes to freeze raw linseed and pour off water to make stand oil quick would work ?

[JDarvall]

oh go on Neil .