A Modern Computer Problem

[jow104]

I purchased a new computer 15 months ago and never disposed of the old model at the time. I was always intending to keep the box as a stand by.
However things were getting overloaded in our small home (buying too many goodies) I put the computer up for sale in the local paper free adds.
I got a bite the very next day (plus another 4 within 48 hours) and sold the computer to 3 Polish boys (they were computer literate types) who have come over from the mainland now they are EC members.
The next day after selling the computer there was a TV news item warning people to be careful how they dispose of their old computers because there is a racket. The racket is stolen identies. This information is on your harddrive,i.e. creditit card transactions,and other things. It appears its no good just formatting the hard drive experienced computer users can still get at info on your hard drive.
There is some software around that supposed to wipe out info but knowing the virus industry it wont be long before hackers crack this softweare?
I have telephoned my credit card company and they are issueing new card numbers.
It looks to me if the hard drives will have tobe removed when selling on a computer

I posted this same thread on a U.K. woodwork forum and thought you nice OZZIE fellows might like to hear of my experience.

[Sturdee]

Yes, it is not too difficult to get information from a reformatted hard drive.

Sell it without the hard drive, and then open it up and remove the two rare earth magnets. Always handy in the shop.


Peter.

[GeoffS]

Never ever dispose of hard disks, floppies, CDs or DVDs without destroying them or wiping them clean.
Floppies, CDs and DVDs are easy - a blow lamp or gas burner will fix them. Careful - they may explode, wear safety glasses.
Hard disks which may still be useable present more of a problem.
There is software available which will remove all the data from any disk drive. Shareware such as 'DriveScrubber' ($US29.00). All the data is completely removed. This is not ideal if you want to leave the operating system on the drive. Generally not legal but frequently done. There are other programs which will remove specific files, but it is very difficult to know what to delete. The operating system itself may contain private data - Windows does.
All these progams use methods which make it impossible to restore the data, some of the methods used involve overwriting the data with rubbish. If the correct methods are used it is impossible to restore the old data - it DOES NOT EXIST. There is no way it can be found 'under the new data', it just isn't there.
Personally - I never sell an old system with anything on the hard drive. If the buyer can't provide an operating system, too bad.
Cheers

[DavidG]

I have found that 2 by 3" nails driven through the hard drive makes the data no longer accessible. :eek:
I have never let a hard drive leave here in a usable form.

[vsquizz]

Program called "System Mechanic" has a cleaner/incinerator which will do the job IF you set it up right.

Cheers

[GeoffS]

David-G - You would be surprised at how much info a determined person could get off a drive that had nails driven through it. Remove the platters, straighten them out and bingo - most of the info is still there.
If I have a drive that is unuseable and I want to destroy the data I use the same method as for CDs etc. Remove the platters and apply HEAT. Lift the surface off the platter and bend and wreck them!! There is probably no perfect way at that point, somebody with enough nous and the right machinery could probably find something on them.
Just think what was achieved after 9/11. Cost a mint (or two) and used 1000's of manhours but an amazing amount of data was retrieved from the computers that could be found.
Cheers

[jow104]

I think I have solved my own problem.
Remove the hard drive from old computer and install it in the new model.
Put the new harddrive in the old computer and there should be nothing.

That will beat them :)

[Barry_White]

I think I have solved my own problem.
Remove the hard drive from old computer and install it in the new model.
Put the new harddrive in the old computer and there should be nothing.

That will beat them :)
I think thats a retrograde step putting your old hard drive in in your new computer. Should be easier enough to buy a secondhand hard drive to put in the computer you want to sell.

[davo453]

I think I have solved my own problem.
Remove the hard drive from old computer and install it in the new model.
Put the new harddrive in the old computer and there should be nothing.


If you do that your restricting the hardware on the new computer as newer hard drives are always quicker.

Also most hard drives have a useful life (depending on actual use) of around 5 years, after that they can get a bit flaky, luck of the draw though really.

Cheers

Dave

[Suresh]

Sturdee,
I have a couple of old puters at home that I will be putting in the recycling, how do I find these magnets, are they part of the hard drive.
Suresh

[Grunt]

While thieves can get your credit card details from a dead hard drive, it is a frick of a lot of work. It is much easier for them to get your credit card details from the restaurant that you went to last night.

If thieves really want to get access to your details on a computer they'll steal the computer and get the details from a working computer.

If you are paranoid about this and you want to protect your information, the best method is to use a hard drive encryption program. These programs encrypt the data as it is being written to the hard drive. As the computer starts up, it asks you for a password. No password, no look see.

There is a whole swag of these on the market. Here is the list from tucows.

http://www.tucows.com/fileencryption95_default.html

Grunt

[Little Festo]

What about a low level reformat of the drive where each sector is reformated?? Takes quie a bit of time to do but should work - ?? Can any computer gurus comment if this would work.

Peter

[q9]

Actually I think you are all missing the point a bit. No one can get what isn't there...this computer here has a smattering of files with my actual name in it, but nothing else. You might find a postal address if you are lucky.

All hard drive manufacturers have wiping utilities available (free!) on their web sites.

[Sturdee]

Sturdee,
I have a couple of old puters at home that I will be putting in the recycling, how do I find these magnets, are they part of the hard drive.
Suresh

Yes they are part of the hard drive.

Wayne Davey's post on it alerted me to them see http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=9066 for details.


Peter.

[HappyHammer]

A simple method without having to buy tools is to delete everything, re-install OS and then copy useless crap onto the hard drive until full. When a new file is written to space on a disk it completely removes anything previously occupying the space.

HH.

[GeoffS]

Little Festo - Nup! Won't do it. Only something that will overwrite (many times) everything on the disk will do the trick or physically destroying the platters not just the hard drive case.
True, most of us don't have anything very important on our hard drives (apart from credit card numbers, passwords, banking info. etc) and just making the drive unreadable on any normal computer makes the job of getting the info very difficult. However there are some people 'out there' who thrive on challenges like that, and, having put all that effort into finding the info think they have earned the right to use it.
They get their kicks their way, I get mine making life totally frustrating for them!
Happy Hammer - even that isn't perfect - really smart gear can (sometimes) find the old data under the new. That is why new garbage must be written many times. All 'ones' then all 'zeroes' over and over again.

Cheers

[Grunt]

I think this thing about having to write zeros and ones over the same same spot on the disk to ensure that you can't read the 'old data underneath' is a myth that is propagated by sellers of cleansing software.

Computers 101.

Computers store things in binary. That is either a zero or a one. A group (8) of these bits are called a byte. For a computer to store the letter 'A' for example is '01000001' in binary. The letter 'M' is '01001101'.

When it writes it to the hard disk it Magnetises or demagnetises little spots on the disk to represent the 0's and 1's. 0's are demagnetised and 1's are magnetised.

The computer must absolutely read back exactly what it writes. It wouldn't do much good for a computer to write the letter 'L' to the disk and then read back an 'F'.

Since the disk can only have it's little spots on the disk magnetised or demagnetised and there is a guarantee that what is written and what is read back is identical, there is no opportunity for something 'underneath' the to be found.

[Tristan Croll]

Not so much "under" as "around". The write heads on a hard disk always have a little bit of play in them. This means that when you overwrite a track, there is almost always a little border which retains the original data. There can actually be quite a number of these borders, so that data that has been "overwritten" up to (I think) four times can often be recovered. This treatment is incredibly expensive both in terms of money and time, so it is generally reserved for suspected terrorists, paedophiles etc.

[HappyHammer]

Sounds like a job for the sledgy and the fire then.

HH.

[jow104]

To Happy hour
My latest harddrive is 160gb what can I fill it with, and live long enough :confused:
In fact an advert this weekend for a computer quotes over 500gb capacity.

[Grunt]

Ok, if there is a little play in the heads, the computer writes some data. Which of the 4 borders does it read? When you get 200+GB on a little 3 1/2" drive, the little magnetised bits are really, really close together. I don't see how there can be any play in the heads and still guarantee that what is written is read.

I think we should stop now, because we're probably boring the crap out of the rest of the people on the BB.

[HappyHammer]

To Happy hour
My latest harddrive is 160gb what can I fill it with, and live long enough :confused:
In fact an advert this weekend for a computer quotes over 500gb capacity.
Just copy and paste and you'll get there pretty quickly, copy OS say 3Gb you have 6Gb then 12, 24, 48, 96, 192, pretty easy.:p

Also it's Happyhammer don't you have football in Devon or are you thinking about your next binge?:D

HH.

[Grunt]

My latest harddrive is 160gb what can I fill it with, and live long enough

, music, DVD's.

[GeoffS]

Grunt - Let's just say, it can be done and leave it at that.
Cheers

[HappyHammer]

, music, DVD's.
and microsoft patches...

[Tristan Croll]

Ok, if there is a little play in the heads, the computer writes some data. Which of the 4 borders does it read? When you get 200+GB on a little 3 1/2" drive, the little magnetised bits are really, really close together. I don't see how there can be any play in the heads and still guarantee that what is written is read.

I think we should stop now, because we're probably boring the crap out of the rest of the people on the BB.

Did I mention that this border is really, really small (even compared to the really, really small track)? The standard read head goes with the majority vote - to read the border data you need an extremely miniaturised read head.

[jow104]

The only connection to football is West Ham United. Its their nickname.
So it must have been the other thought.

[HappyHammer]

The only connection to football is West Ham United. Its their nickname.
So it must have been the other thought.
You have it, I'm a West Ham fan!:D I think it's payback for something bad I did in a previous life or just geography I'm not sure.....

HH.

[jow104]

Another problem arises from selling your old computer.

I sold my old computer for hard cash to 3 Polish lads who were very computer literate. What else were they going to use the computer for?
It might have nothing to do with credit card numbers.

Perhaps they want my identity to do some other activity. They are almost untraceable immigrants without fixed abode. They are probably shacking up at some address on a very temporary basis and can move on within minutes if they desire.
I put the thread up purely to show the dangers of selling on a computer to an unknown purchaser or passing on to family connection which subsequently could still finish in other hands innocently.

[HappyHammer]

What fun it must be being a part of the EU...:D

[Grunt]

Did I mention that this border is really, really small (even compared to the really, really small track)? The standard read head goes with the majority vote - to read the border data you need an extremely miniaturised read head.

Sorry for this, I'll promise I'll stop.

The majority vote doesn't work for me. I successively write data to the same sector. The first contains A's, then B's then A's and then D's. The majority vote would say A's but I definately only want my D's back.

I'm going to have to do some research. It's bugging me now.

[jow104]

Happy hammer

Yeah, the Swedish girls are good. :D

[Barry_White]

Happy hammer

Yeah, the Swedish girls are good. :D
Woody

You're like me getting a bit old to be thinking about them. Just thinking about them could put us into cardiac arrest.

[jow104]

Bazza

Is that what that funny feeling is all about, seemed to have had that trouble all my life!

[Barry_White]

Well at least there is Viagra

[jow104]

It appears reading the NEWS OF THE WORLD" this weekend V##### is old hat . try Ciilla it lasts upto 36 hours. Lovely.

For readers down under NOW is a notorious Sunday UK paper which reports on all such matters, they did a personal evaluation and concurred. :o

[Barry_White]

36 Hours I'd be dead in an hour.

[jow104]

I assume this prescription is issued for hareem use??

[ernknot]

Why not turn your hard drive into a magnet, that should kill all the stuff on the drive. Just wrap some coated wire around your HD about 15 times to form a coil. Connect one bare end to a battery + and the other to - this should now magnetise you HD. DO NOT CONNECT TO POWER OUTLETS. Otherwise you will never know.
ernknot

[jow104]

ernknot you old ****