Cast & ordinary iron restoration

[Peter R]

I heard that molasses is good for removing rust from old iron, any old iron - sorry!
Has anyone else heard about this process and if so what is it? Is the molasses just painted on or what?
Hurry back, folks, I have just picked up a basin pot, or whatever you want to call it, with Kenrick 14 inch on the bottom. It is enamelled inside, and I think it may have had a lid, not sure. There are two side handles with "rosettes" at the handle fixing point.
I also have a cow bell, which on cleaning, found copper surfacing as though it had been copper dipped. The No.1 and R&E MFG NY is stamped on the bell.
There would be two reasons that I can think of for the copper dipping, 1. it was originally chromed, or 2. the copper was introduced to give the required sound (Note).
Wadyareckon!
Peter R.

[ozwinner]

Mix up 50/50 molasses and water, and let the object soak for a while, maybe 2 weeks bepends on the rust thickness.


Al :)

[Peter R]

Thanks Al, am about to try your mix. question 2: does this process hurt brass inlays, name plates etc.?

Peter R.

[ozwinner]

Sorry cant help with the brass, as I only soak old tools in it.


Al :)

[bitingmidge]

Sorry cant help with the brass, as I only soak old tools in it.

Explains what you are doing in the avatar anyway.

P
:D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

Can someone explain the chemistry behind all this molasses stuff?

I think it would be hard to beat electrolysis, but then ......

Al, the thought of your old tools soaking in molasses has probably scarred me for life!!
:D :D :D
P

[silentC]

Al, have you had problems with your old tool shrinking when you soak it like that?

[Peter R]

Al
Are those replying to your comment the fossil fools that I have heard about, you know? the ones that are fast running out?
No, hang on, that's fossil fuels, I think.
I would like to know the chemical process too, if anyone can explain, and I would like to know about the brass etc.
Peter R.

PS. I heard a third reason for copper dipping the cow bell. It comes from my old mate Rex who says, maybe it was to help the cows with their arthritis. Pretty clever, my mate Rex.

[ozwinner]

I actualy mixed up a new batch today, Ive got a 20l drum of rusty tools to do, made me want to lick all the tools...............mmmmm.......molasses............mmmmm sticky.


Al :D

[GeoffVIC]

Can someone explain the chemistry behind all this molasses stuff?

I think it would be hard to beat electrolysis, but then ......



Apparently, the molasses and water ferments to create acetic acid - that's what does the work.

The following is lifted from
http://www.moreg.org.au/dissolving_rust.htm

Cheers,
Geoff.

With Molasses

Everyone has heard how molasses dissolves rust, so make a trip to the local pet food and grain store and get your molasses.
The formula is two litres of molasses in 7 litres of water. Put this mixture in a plastic bucket or container and partly cover to help stop evaporation. Leave for about three weeks, down by the back fence (it pongs a bit), until it ferments. It should now have a skin on the top, which should be peeled off. Now you can immerse your rusty parts in this solution. Leave for about two weeks before removing them, by then all the rust should be dissolved (use rubber gloves, long tongs, or tie pieces of wire to the parts before you start, as this mixture contains ACETIC ACID).

After removal, wash off the brown muck straight away with a stiff brush under hot running water. As soon as the parts are dry, treat them with rust converter and paint them as soon as possible, or if not painted, wire brush and oil them. This must be done immediately because surface rust will start to form as soon as the metal is dry, because it is so clean it has no protection.

Apparently the water and molasses mixture when left exposed to air, ferments and produces, amongst other things, Acetic Acid. This reacts with the oxygen in the rust and when the iron oxide (rust) is all reduced the process stops, so the steel or iron is not affected, but the surface of the metal is now virtually in original condition and subject to immediate attack by oxygen in the air and begins to rust, so must be protected.

The benefit of using molasses is that it dissolves that rock-hard rust that even wire brushes can't touch and carborundum cloth can't reach and by using arrangements of odd-shaped containers like old concrete troughs half full of dirt and lined with heavy plastic sheet, it is possible to derust larger objects that would not stand sand blasting.

This mixture will still derust for quite some time, (six months or even more).

[GeoffVIC]

This Molasses is dangerous stuff! (http://www.fact-index.com/b/bo/boston_molasses_disaster.html)
:D :D :D

Cheers,
Geoff

[Peter R]

Another version from magichammer.freeservers.com

Molasses contains chelating agents. These are made up of molecules that are shaped a bit like crab claws - the word chelating comes directly from the Latin word chele, meaning claw. They can develop metal atoms on the surface of an object, trapping them and removing them. Molasses owes its properties to cyclic hydroxamic acids which are powerful chelators of iron.
More of these compounds are found if the molasses is derived from sugar beet rather than cane sugar. The plants from which molasses is made presumably use these chelating agents to help them extract minerals from the soil. Interestingly, there are aerobic microorganisms that use similar cyclic hydroxamic acids to scavenge iron. So plants and microbes appear to use the same chelation strategy to obtain their daily ration of iron.
The same process is at work when you clean old coins with Vegimite of cola. The power of the chelating agents also explains why the inside of tomato cans need to be lacquered. The citric acid in tomatoes would disolve the metal container if the lacquer was not present.
Household cleaning agents, especially detergents and shampoos, also rely on chelation. These soften water to make it more effective during the cleaning process.

The mixture from this article is: nine parts water one part molasses and the object put in at the time of mixing, and left for two weeks.

Hmmm! Very interesting. aint you glad you asked Midge?

Peter R.

[bitingmidge]

aint you glad you asked Midge?


I can now die happy.
:D :D :D

P

[Peter R]

The first batch has surfaced - boy! does it clean the metal up and it doesn't hurt brass or copper.
Now, I found that within one day a film of rust covers the cleaned metal, what do you blokes use to keep it and briney?

Peter R.

If it weren't for electricity we would all be watching television by candlelight.

[ozwinner]

You have to oil it straight away.

Then maybe paint it.

Al

[Peter R]

You have to oil it straight away.

Then maybe paint it.

Al
Talk about quick, thanks, Al, I will see what other have to say. I would like to keep some of the items as is (sort of) and I reckon some vanish type coating would be available that someone might know about.

Peter R.

[johnno402002]

Hi Peter,

I've used mollasses to strip rust off some of my car panels ( 1930 Ford ) and I had problems with the almost immediate rust tinge that forms on the metal after washing the mollasses off.

I did a lot of experimenting trying to solve this problem. I couldn't use oil, because I needed to be sure that I could paint the panels. I also wanted to be sure that the mollasses reaction would actually stop, and not continue to cause damage after I had done the body work. That got me thinking about something to neutralise the reaction.

The answer is bicarb soda. It seems to stop this dead in its tracks, and the resulting surface is stable for at least a year if kept dry.

For example, I dipped a door in it, in a kids wading pool. It had to be hosed off, because the internal surfaces couldn't be reached any other way. So I hit it with the pressure washer, followed imediately by a hose over with a car wash gun, with dry bicarb in the detergent holder. Let it dry naturally.

It's still bare steel, it's got some surface rust now, about 18 months later, but I did leave it out of the shed and it got damp.:o The other panels I did at the same time are still OK, last I looked.

I tried to do a panel one half at a time, and I found that the bit sticking out of the mollasses rusted very quickly. Also, the frame on the wading pool rusted away very quickly. I doesn't seem to hurt any good metal that is completely submerged though.

I also noticed that it works much faster if you give the metal a quick scub with scotchbrite, then rinse it off with water once a day. I think the reaction builds a film on the remaining rust that slows the reaction down.

regards,

John