H&F ST-12D AKA W454 12" Table Saw

[YeahNah]

As seen here https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=W454
I took delivery of this 270kg piece of machinery on Friday. Delivery to my door by a transport company for $88.00 (H&F said it would be $800.00 as they would need a crane truck. Utter nonsense, it was a standard delivery truck and they moved it into my Garage Workshop with an electric pallet jack). It came on a half pallet, stacked on a full pallet with 2 accompanying boxes which housed the rails and the fence. The machine itself was well packaged in a box made from ply. With wrecking bar in hand, it took about 15 minutes to unpack the box. The 2 cast iron wings were in the box, along with the pressed metal dust shroud (blue box in the picture) and various tools including the spanners required to putthe thing together.

I was easily able to get the half pallet off the full pallet by carefully sliding it off, then used the ply sheet and timber frame to make an adhoc ramp. The saw is on wheels, so it rolled effortlessly on to the floor. Total time. 10 minutes (7 minutes of scratching my head (and other parts of my anatomy) 3 minutes of actual work). Once again, done solo. Without the extra bits it would only have been a mere 210kg. Too heavy to lift, quite easy to slide.

Now the tricky bit, putting it together. H&F manual was very handy when we ran out of toilet paper. The Grizzly manual was useful for putting the machine together. Link is here http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g5959_m.pdf (Thanks for the finding it for me Nick :2tsup:)
There are some differences in the USA model and the H&F. Mainly electrical and the H&F model has a riving knife with a hood, not a splitter.

The rails go one without a problem, the fence is placed on top and fits nicely. Very easy stuff.


It all went together quite well, total time to put together 2 hours.

15 minutes to unpack
30 mintues to put together
1 hour adjusting the cast iron wings (ugh)
15 minutes miscellaneous scratching
Getting the cast iron wings to sit flush was the biggest drama. Every time I tighten them, they try to sit proud. I have got one right, the other needs more work. Tips and suggestions welcome.
:flog:

All else went well. The Saw comes with a combo blade of average quality. I will be looking for a rip blade and cross cut blade to replace it. Budget $150-$200 for both. That's another story for another time.

The saw came without a power lead. No problem, easy to wire one in for anyone who can read and follow directions.

I hooked the unit in to my 3hp H&F DC https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=W329
using 4" flexible hose. Now the big test.....switching it on, and will both machines run successfully on the same 20amp circuit?


Success! I push the on button, it hesitates, then off and running. It hums like a quality machine, a welcome change from the scream of my triton 235mm circular saw, sitting in my workcentre.

I have used it on a few bits of mystery wood (hard softwood, or soft hardwood, difficult to tell). It goes like a hot knife through butter (no longer a cliche for me). Accurate, powerful and big. Entirely unlike it's owner (except maybe my nose).

So in the washup, my early impressions of this machine are:


Pros:

Excellent value for money
Very powerful
good build quality
decent quality fence
it sits on super handy wheels
big table size
low vibration
Cons:

mitregauge is pretty average. OK in the short term. The cheapest incra would be a massive upgrade
manual. Better if it were 2 ply with serations, or on roll would be good too.
My 2 year old has banged his head about 3 times in 2 hours on those massively long rails. The cream beige seems to blend in. It's a pretty big footprint in the workshop too. Not necessarliy the best saw for those who lack space.
All in all, I am very happy with my purchase, and at this stage I recommend this saw. I will update the review when I have given the saw a proper workout. Until the, questions, words of congratulations and other comments welcome.

Pictures will follow in due course. I lost my digital camera after photographing the assembly of the machine. I either put it in a "really good spot", in which case I won't find it for 3-4 days, or my 2 year old found it, in which case it will be a job for the acheologists in around 200 years. I hope it's the former. :doh:

[artme]

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw.

I had trouble lining up the wings on my Jet. Solved problem by clamping solid pieces of angle to top of table and then to wing. Two bits of angle and 4 clamps are needed. I used F clamps because they have a longer "reach" from the sides.

Did the DC work well???

[Bismar]

Sounds awesome, looked in the dust collector for the camera? :P

Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, just have to make time to actually go to H&F, which hopefully would be this friday, and i'm hoping they ordered more stock when you ordered yours :P

How was setting up the actual parallelness of the blade to the mitre track? Also what kind of arbour run out are you getting?

Btw for the blades, i myself am thinking of getting them direct from the US, most notably from the maker of the brand Forrest, which seems to have an awesome reputation. Maybe we should organise a small group buy to save on shipping? :)

[YeahNah]

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw.

I had trouble lining up the wings on my Jet. Solved problem by clamping solid pieces of angle to top of table and then to wing. Two bits of angle and 4 clamps are needed. I used F clamps because they have a longer "reach" from the sides.

Did the DC work well???


Angle iron eh? Clever. I think I will source a couple of pieces and do as you suggest. Thanks for the tip. :2tsup:

The DC-7 has been good so far. I will write a review once I have had a chance to foul up the dust bags to see if the suction remains strong.

[YeahNah]

Sounds awesome, looked in the dust collector for the camera? :P

Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, just have to make time to actually go to H&F, which hopefully would be this friday, and i'm hoping they ordered more stock when you ordered yours :P

How was setting up the actual parallelness of the blade to the mitre track? Also what kind of arbour run out are you getting?

Btw for the blades, i myself am thinking of getting them direct from the US, most notably from the maker of the brand Forrest, which seems to have an awesome reputation. Maybe we should organise a small group buy to save on shipping? :)

Camera found, now I have to get my teenage daughter to return my USB cable. Stay tuned.

Bismar, I think you will be delighted if/when you get this saw. I had another session with it and it is just a dream compared to the old Triton (which served me well).

The saw has no noticeable arbour run out. The blade was pretty well parallel to the mitre track. I checked it with my micrometer and it was only .05 mm out straight out of the box. I doubt I will try and improve on that. I have done a quick check of fence accuracy too and it was pretty good. Fine tuning will be done on the weekend.

I am not familiar with the Forrest brand, but I like the name. I've been lookin at CMT and Freud, but I am aware there are better blades out there. It's a dollar thing though. I am all out of pocket money. Jointer and thicknesser will have to wait. I think I might buy a ripping blade now and leave the crosscut blade until much later. I tend to used my dropsaw for cross cuts anyway. In the mean time I might google the Forrest blades you mentioned.

Let me know how your shopping trip goes on Friday (or when you get to go). I would be very interested in reading your experiences!

[John Saxton]

YeahNah good review, where was this machine manufactured ?

I was assuming China on your points with regards to the manual.

M/C looks as though it will go the distance and give you many hrs of pleasure W'working.


Cheers:)

[Bismar]

H&F website says taiwan.

[graemet]

I am not familiar with the Forrest brand, but I like the name. I've been lookin at CMT and Freud, but I am aware there are better blades out there. It's a dollar thing though. I am all out of pocket money. Jointer and thicknesser will have to wait. I think I might buy a ripping blade now and leave the crosscut blade until much later. I tend to used my dropsaw for cross cuts anyway. In the mean time I might google the Forrest blades you mentioned.


I would suggest you look at Henry Brothers own brand blades. I went to have two of my 10" blades sharpened and was very pleasantly surprised at the low cost. So that I could still work while the sharpening was in progress, I thought I would buy a cheapy as a backup. The HB blades are made in Germany and although I have my expensive blades back now and in excellent shape, I'm leaving my new HB (cheap) blade on the saw as it is as good as I've used. http://cdn.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/actions/2thumbsup.gif
Cheers
Graeme

[graemet]

Sorry, forgot their details. 541 Old Hawkesbury Rd Vineyard NSW 2765 - (02) 9627 5486
No website but a call will get you someone who knows what he's talking about, no receptionist or sales people, just fellows who know saws.
The usual disclaimers, no connection except a satisfied (many times) customer.

Cheers
Graeme

[YeahNah]

YeahNah good review, where was this machine manufactured ?

I was assuming China on your points with regards to the manual.

M/C looks as though it will go the distance and give you many hrs of pleasure W'working.


Cheers:)

Hi John

Thanks :U

Bismar is correct, the machine is Taiwanese. The english is not the problem in the manual, it's to brief, and lacks the required detail and formatting to make it useful. It's a shame as the machine is impressing me more with each use.

On the sawblade front, I will haveto google HB blades. I was looking at buying a CMT ripping blade soon and a Flai fine finishing saw as the funds become available. Althoug, I wouldn't mind a Flai Mustang oneday for tidying up recycled timber Promac Tools :: SAW BLADES :: Mustang Multi Material Saw Blades (type MSG) (http://promac.com.au/products/mustang-flai-saw-blades-type-msg/370/mustang-multi-material-saw-blades-(type-msg)/)

[Bismar]

When to Hare and Forbes today, their service was pretty good, although i did not ask too many indepth questions about the machines, as i knew what i wanted. For future reference, i believe Craig is the guy who knows the most about the woodworking machinery.

Sadly however, i was only able to walk away with a quote, as ALL the 240v ST-12D in Australia were sold out and shipment won't arrive till the start of feb.

Sigh :(

Unsure now if i should wait, as it is a very nicely priced machine, or seek alternatives.

An interesting thing is that the best price he could do with a $4000 purchase was only about 5%, compared to other people purchases from say WWWH. Possibly because their prices are much lower already.

[YeahNah]

When to Hare and Forbes today, their service was pretty good, although i did not ask too many indepth questions about the machines, as i knew what i wanted. For future reference, i believe Craig is the guy who knows the most about the woodworking machinery.

Sadly however, i was only able to walk away with a quote, as ALL the 240v ST-12D in Australia were sold out and shipment won't arrive till the start of feb.

Sigh :(

Unsure now if i should wait, as it is a very nicely priced machine, or seek alternatives.

An interesting thing is that the best price he could do with a $4000 purchase was only about 5%, compared to other people purchases from say WWWH. Possibly because their prices are much lower already.

Oh No! Bummer on the availability. :doh:

I went during the sale and they were sellingthem then for $1549, with no further discout available. I reckon that if you twisted their arm, they should be able to do it for that price. The $A is still strong.

You might be able to look around and find a better saw, but I doubt you'll get one for less. Very dissappointing for you. Out of curiosity, what else are you looking to buy?

[Bismar]

I was after a W850 Scheppach planer/ thicknesser as well.

Was that $1549 price you got ex or inc?

As it stands now, i'll probably head down to WWWH and discuss with them, as being a uni student, by the time feb comes around, thats half my holidays gone.

[YeahNah]

Was that $1549 price you got ex or inc?



including GST

[brisbanefitter]

yes the dollar is good but if you wanna wait for stock that hasnt shipped and roll the dice on what you will pay then you might reap the rewards.
the new shipment should be good, prices good and all that if they have paid for them now, if they have not left taiwan then they havent been paid for and are subject to exchange rate.

they are a solid piece of gear, taiwan builds good ####, almost like europe and the state.
oh and the jet stuff that everybody raves about, its chinese, manufacture is chinese, componets and assembly is all chinese. IT ISNT USA ANYMORE.

sorry for the caps but it ##### me when people say jet is USA quality for a China price, its a china price for a reason.

I say call melbourne and ask them to secure you a saw from the next shipment at todays price, if they will promise to honour it you get a machine at relevant exchabge rate anbd stop the gamble on what might be. everybody thinks we are out of the gfc, well i might pe pesimistic but i dont think we are out of it yet and #### could still hit the fan if the us bail out dont work.

a mate told me that of the usa has the flu its an issue, if china sneezes we are all ####ed, and he turned out to be spot in the money.

[snapman007]

I wouldn't put money down on something that is NOT in stock.
The A$ will still get better against the $US.
Pay for something that u can touch.:)

[Bismar]

TBH, atm the price is less of an issue then having to wait for two months. I think i'll try ringing all the stores in Australia, to check if they are defintely out of stock.

[brisbanefitter]

they wont ask you to put money down, check the opst about coming clean, i should know.
bismar you can call all the stores in australia but be prepared to pay some freight, eg brisbane to melb, or perth to melb.
if it on the east coast it will be looked at but if not in sydney then expact to pay some if not all off the freight to get it from brisbane.
if in perth forget it unless you are willing to pay all of that freight to get it back again.

you have to remember that sydney is hq, that is where most of the H&F branches draw stock from. If its in brisbane, it will cost you to get back down again, especially if it landed in sydney first then was shipped to brisbane.
if it landed in brisbane first, it will still cost you some freight as brisbane doesnt often send stock to melbourne and to send it as a one off will be expensive.

i cant speak directly for the other branches or other sales guys but i kjnow in brisbane we will charge freight to draw from melbourne H&F stock, in most cases anyway it is normal practice.

[snapman007]

like I said, pay for something you can take home.

[Big Shed]

they wont ask you to put money down, check the opst about coming clean, i should know.

bismar you can call all the stores in australia but be prepared to pay some freight, eg brisbane to melb, or perth to melb.
if it on the east coast it will be looked at but if not in sydney then expact to pay some if not all off the freight to get it from brisbane.
if in perth forget it unless you are willing to pay all of that freight to get it back again.

you have to remember that sydney is hq, that is where most of the H&F branches draw stock from. If its in brisbane, it will cost you to get back down again, especially if it landed in sydney first then was shipped to brisbane.
if it landed in brisbane first, it will still cost you some freight as brisbane doesnt often send stock to melbourne and to send it as a one off will be expensive.

i cant speak directly for the other branches or other sales guys but i kjnow in brisbane we will charge freight to draw from melbourne H&F stock, in most cases anyway it is normal practice.

BF, you are obviously connected to H&F, but I would like to contradict you re the "they wont ask you to put money down" part.

When I was looking at the WL46 Wood Lathe H&F Melbourne would only take an order (again no stock) with a minimum of 10% deposit.

As I have had previous experience with promised delivery dates not being met, I respectfully declined.

[brisbanefitter]

Hi Big Shed,
I cant speak for the other branches or the people that work in them.
Here in Brisbane, it is normal for us to accept an order for something we dont have and not require a deposit provided it is not a special order item that is not part of our normal stock lines (this is usually large expensive machine tools or sheetmetal gear).
As the WL-46 lathe is not a special order (I assume you just wanted the standard one as it comes) then if you were in Brisbane we would in normal circumstance offer to backorder a machine and call when it arrives into stock.
If the buyer is adamant that they would like to put a deposit down or even sometimes pay in full for the item, we will oblige.
It is possible that Melbourne does things slightly different to Brisbane.
A possible reason I can think of perhaps is if stock is coming into Sydney in limited qty, perhaps the deposit is to secure a machine from this stock and have it transferred to Melbourne, but this is only speculation and I am in no way saying this is the case as I am not the guy who you spoke to in Melbourne and I do not know the reasoning behind it.

With regard to delivery dates, these do sometimes vary depending on a lot of things but mainly its getting it from the supplier in the qty we want, getting container space then space on a ship to get out here. Then there is customs and how long it sits on the docks at both ends.
We we order we get an eta from the supplier, which is entered into our operating system so we can all see when goods are due. The eta is based on whether they have to stock, and if everything from that end to this falls into place as it should.
This date is eta only and is not not until they actually ship (this also gets put into the system when an order is on its way). Once it has shipped, usually the date on the system is correct, plus or minus 1 week for the variables.
sometimes, yes, we do get a blowout on when goods arrive and often it is for reasons out of out control. It is not only frustrating for you the buyer but also for us as we want to supply the equipment at a time we have told the buyer it will be available.

hope this explained something

[Big Shed]

Thanks for that BF, it just goes to show that when you appear to speak for H&F, perhaps you should make it clear that you speak for/about H&F Brisbane as it is obvious that things are done slightly different in other states.

Certainly in Melbourne they will accept an order unless they get a deposit, I have tried the same argument about normal stock item etc, as you speak of above, and only got a shrug of the shoulders and the standard " company policy" reply.

[YeahNah]

Small update:

Something else for the Cons list. Taking the riving knife off is a pain in the butt. Putting it back on is slightly worse. It uses 2 hex screws and is a bit fiddly. Probably no worse than most table saws out there, but a small aggravation none the less.

Good news is the saw is going great and has been terrific to use.

[YeahNah]

Here are 8 photos of the saw being unloaded and put together:
1/ The delivered package
2/ Out of the crate, now t ounwrap
3/ I am so glad it's shipped with the wheels on!
4/ Inside view
5/ One wing on, one to go
6/ The fences rails are on
7/ Dad, the goal posts are meant to be verticle!
8/ Nearly done, now where's the turps (to clean the top, not to drink).

[Bismar]

Nice pics!

Another question, is that pallet attached to the plywood box?

Also roughly how big is the pallet? Will it fit in a trailer?

[YeahNah]

Another question, is that pallet attached to the plywood box?

Also roughly how big is the pallet? Will it fit in a trailer?

The plywood box is attached to the half pallet (which is around 750mm X 830mm). The half pallet just sits on the full pallet. a full pallet comfortably fits into a standard 6 X 4 trailer. Sliding the pallet out of the trailer could be a bittrickier than anything I had to do. I think you'd need a couple of mates to help.

[misd669]

does anybody know how this saw comparew to a mbs 300?
regards
michael

[YeahNah]

Without inspecting it in person, Carba-Tec 12" Cabinet Saw : CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.com.au/carba-tec-12-cabinet-saw_c3170) looks very similar indeed.

Allot of H&F stuff seems to have a Carbatec equivilent and for that matter a Grizzly eqivilent. Can anyone confirm this is basically the same saw?

[Bismar]

So some $1870 later, i got a non existent (read earlier posts) table saw shipped from Brisbane. ($220 from Bris to Melb if anyone cares) Seems that it pays to call other branches, as either their inventory management system is shlte or well shlte.

I'll post pictures later, but its almost the same as YeahNah's. Just a few preliminary notes i'll like to add as i haven't finished putting it together (it was late and the mozzies were attacking).

- The Grizzly manual is pretty much spot on, although we got a stupid riving knife and blade guard.

- Why is it stupid? The riving knife does not go below the table which is silly.

- The manual is also a joke. It refers to the riving knife as seen on the Grizzly. They were so slack in fact, the original front page of the manual just says Tilting Arbor Saw with a picture. I say original because they stuck a page on it that says Hare and Forbes ST12D. I'll see if the picture has a brand on it later, but thats kinda hard as it involves holding it against a bright light.

- Table saw has a few scuffs on the outside, even though its brand new.

- The angle gauge on the front, doesn't fully approach zero, although using a digital protractor on the riving knife shows that its around 89.9º relative to the iron table.

So thats my rant for now, will update later.

Also an interesting note about Hare and Forbes in general. They seem to have a retarded choice in shipping companies. To have a truck ship out a product to you with a tail life/ engine crane, will cost you $110 an hour, with a MINIMUM of 3 hours. So thats $330 minimum.

Carbatec on the other hand quoted me under $150 for a truck with a tail lift.

WTH?

[YeahNah]

Hi Bismar

I am glad you got the saw in time for holiday's. A wait until February would have been no good.

I agree with your sentiments on the shipping info you get from H&F. I was quoted $800.00 from Dandenong to Moe (around 1hour 15 minutes in the car). Arranged it myself for a fraction of the cost.

The blade guard is a bit annoying, but I don't mind the riving knife. I prefer it to a splitter. A pain to take off etc, but otherwise pretty good.

The angle of the blade is pretty easy to adjust, just a hex bolt to adjust the positive stops at 90 and 45 degrees.

I am surprised the unit came scratched. Mine was so well packaged it was flawless. I think a phone call to H&F maybe warranted there.

I hope tomorrow treats you better than today has!

[brisbanefitter]

a short note to give some insight into the shipping.
Here in BRISBANE we offer several different methods of delivery, these are the most common:

1. Metro- general carrier or point to point courier- if you can unload whatever weight it is off the back of a normal size ute or truck. by unload I mean within reasonable time. if the carrier can offer it, we can request a tailgate loader to deliver it to get it to the ground on site but this usually attracts a surcharge of some kind

2. out of brisbane- general carrier to your door if you can unload it, nearest local depot of whoever carrier is where you can collect in your trailer, ute etc and get it home, unload at your convenience.
if this is not convenient AND the carrier can offer it, we can request tailgate loader from depot to your door where they can get it to the ground, some of them even offer local crane truck services but this is usually also at a surcharge.

3. Metro- crane truck. This WILL be expensive but if you cant unload something and you want it put as close as possible to where it will be used (depends on your access as to how close it can get) some times this is convenient. Here in Brisbane, the guys we use have the capacity to deliver anything from a small lathe to a 10,000kg pressbrake, this sort of versatility from a carrier attracts cost, they have the equipment and the people who are capable of and often are moving whole factories across town. These guys know our equipment and how to lift, move etc without damaging it (unless they have an oops which isnt often at all).
Tailgate loader on a point to point courier will usually be cheaper than a truck with a hiab type crane on it.

4. there is a guy up here who operates a small trailer that can lift a pallet up off the ground and onto the trailer. at your end he simply puts the pallet on the ground as close as he can get to where you want it. He is priced reasonably and can usually be booked at around 3-4 days notice.

I do not know who the Melbourne guys use for freight to all the different locations they ship to, I can only tell you what we do up here.
In Brisbane we look for the most cost efficient method of delivery that will get you the machine in one piece and will not result in angry truck drivers taking it back to the depot because it cant be unloaded quickly (this has happened).
We also always give the customer the option to arrange their own freight with whoever they wish. We offer the service, at rates determined by carriers not us, they charge us, we charge you, its a real cost to our business, we pass this onto the end user.
If a customer chooses not to use the carriers who we run accounts with it is entirely their choice. In many cases a customer can and will find cheaper freight and arrange it themselves.

Lastly,
I cannot explain the scuff marks on the machine, I am pretty sure this unit has never been out of the crate, the display unit in Brisbane is 415v, there fore this would not have been out of the crate in its life to the best of my knowledge.

With regard to inventory management, we have a system that is reliable.
Dont know why you were told no machines available, cant speak for Melbourne or the staff down there, other than Brisbane does not often send machines to Melbourne especially if they have been shipped to Brisbane from Sydney first. Shipping machines all over the place costs us money, and we try really hard not to transfer stock Melbourne to Brisbane or Brisbane to Melbourne. Sydney is HQ, we draw a lot of our stock from there and we land some containers into Brisbane and Melbourne also. This will be why you were charged some freight to get it from Brisbane to Melbourne, because it probably went Sydney to Brisbane first, and its not normal practice to be shipping machines Brisbane to Melbourne
Beyond this, chances of damage in transit increases the further it travels, the more times it travels, a broken machine turning up at the other end is no good to anybody.

hope this explains something, maybe. :U

[Bismar]

So got around to mounting the tablesaw wings today, and that wasn't too hard.

All was going fine till i hit a major problem.

Basically H&F sent me a sawblade by overnight shipping from Sydney because they didn't have any at Melbourne.

As a picture is worth a thousand words, this describes my problem. *Glares at folks in Sydney*

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l397/Bismartabeee/saw.jpg

Soo, thats kinda annoying. Sigh looks like i'll have to wait till Monday for my blade as couriers don't deliver on weekends :/

[YeahNah]

Strange indeed. By blade was shipped with the unit. It had the correct 30mm hole. While I wouldn't say it's a top notch blade, at least it fits and it works.

You're not having much luck there Bismar :no:

[YeahNah]

They've sent you the 305mm instead of the 300mm, which is odd as the 305mm is more expensive (and wrong). https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=W400B (https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=W400B)

[Horaldic]

Just read through this discussion and it reminded me of another of my recent investigations, getting a water tank delivered. I was looking at a quite expensive "craning in" however I got given a list of prices by a firm linking to some more than reasonable carriers and crane operators. I would highly recommend to anyone who is contemplating buying machinery to get independent quotes for transport and craning.

Some of the prices quoted when you go through the machinery dealers make the whole exercise seem unaffordable, whereas if you arrange transport and craning yourself prices are much more reasonable. E.g. for a heavy lift with a 26 metre reach (capable of going over a house) prices started at only $200.

I'm not even remotely associated with this type of business and just came across this investigating the lift for a tank.

[brisbanefitter]

horadic,
I agree, I suggest people get their own quotes for transport.
We offer it (Hare and forbes) as part of the service but rates are determined by those whom we have accounts with, and we run accounts with people who can shift 1kg down the road 1km, to guys who can shift 10,000kg 1800km up the road. we dont run accounts with every single carrier in town and we choose those who can best suit what we require which varies daily according to the above.
By best suit it means guys who can do the job within 2-3 days of the sale at the most, usually next day is preffered, which narrows the field even more.

The last thing we want is for freight to stop a customer from purschasing our goods and make them go elsewhere, as i said IN BRISBANE, we find the most affordable freight that can COMPETANTLY do the job and have the goods shipped in a sensible manner ie. not send chaepest way to residential where ti will take customer 2 hours to unload because they have to dismantle the goods to unload bit by bit, transport company will charge you for this time, if they happen to hang around this long.

[allisa]

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw. Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, I am going to make this deal after Christmas.

[Bismar]

So ok, more experiences with the table saw.

Due to having insufficient wiring/power requirements, i still haven't actually ran the saw.

I however have done some alignment and measurements of the saw.

Arbor runout was found to be just a tad over 0.002", and the trunnions were found to be factory aligned with the back 0.003" away from the fence.

Since thats normally whats recommended to avoid burnouts on the wood, i left it alone. According to a few sites, the arbor runout looks to be a little high, but we'll see.

Blade + arbor runout was found to be around 0.005" in total, which is quite a lot. I'll have to buy a better blade once our dollar goes back up again.

I don't have any experiences with the original fence as its still in the box, BUT thats because i installed a Incra fence. The mitre gauge is likewise still in its original packaging.

The Incra fence was fun to set up, (ahh the joys of a well written and illustrated manuel *glares at H&F* ) although it seems weird that the part used to align the fence mounting arms is later irreversibly used to mount the LS Positioner base, meaning that if you wanted to realign it, or change table saws, you might need to buy another pair. That or ruin the skids you stick onto it and buy those instead (probably cheaper too).

I was a little dissapointed as the runout from the mitre guides when the LS Positioner is locked can be anywhere from 0.001" to 0.02" No that is not a typo 0.02". When the front knob is tightened however its around 0.02".

But before anyone mentions that you are meant to lock the knob when sawing, i ask you this, if the runout is anywhere from 0.001" to 0.02", locking it down will be anywhere in that range, unless u were to break out your saw gauge every single time you want to align the fence to the blade.

My fence also had a dip in the middle that can be visually seen (http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l397/Bismartabeee/100_2067.jpg), and is ~ 0.003" deep relative to both ends. Depending how much of an issue this turns out to be once i get an electrician to rewire my place, i might have to bug Grahame at WWS.

It should be noted that the mounting arms that hold the rails (http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l397/Bismartabeee/100_2072.jpg), are in the way of the mitre slot limiting movement in both directions. Time to break out the dremel me thinks.

O and also for some silly reason while everything that is frequently adjusted uses hex nuts, the red base of the LS Positioner isn't. It still uses the archaic phillips screw head, which i have already almost threaded just from aligning the LS Positioner system.

The mitre gauge was likewise a breeze to set up, even with the shimming required to get it to be 90 degrees to the table. The shop stop seems to be an awesome feature with the included scale due to Incra's patented track system. More info and pics on this later.

I also purchased a Router Raizer for my triton which i just finished but haven't had time to get some pics/ mount the router into a table etc etc.. So i'll get back on this later.

[YeahNah]

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw. Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, I am going to make this deal after Christmas.

Thanks Allisa. I think you'll be pretty happy with the Saw.

A further update now that I've had a chance to use the saw on a project (built myself a built in computer desk).

It is super powerful and does not show any sign of slowing down no matter what wood I put through it or how thick.

Dust exctraction is so so though. Anything that goes under the table gets sucked up pretty well, but there is a fair old smattering of saw dust that goes over the table too. Not super fine stuff, but the larger saw dust. As there is no dust extraction in the hood, it would likely benefit from the saw guard hood with a 60mm dust extraction chute that's available as an after market accessory. not super keen on parting with more hard earned than I need to though. https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=W459

When I've bought a new rip blade I will see if the problem is in the saw design or just with the quality of the blade that came with the machine. It's not a massive big deal, but even my old Triton didn't spit up any saw dust on the top of the machine bench, so I want to address it.

I am looking forward to Bismar's thoughts on his machine.

[Bismar]

Make take awhile found out the wiring into my house is either 32 or 45 amps, and seeing as i need to run the saw and dust compressor at the same time... which is about 28 amps.. it won't happen.

Had 3 electricians quoted so far, and have gone ahead, but apparently the paperwork will take 2 weeks as the inspectors have to check it, after new wiring is done from the street.

I will do a in-depth review though, once i get it up and running. I've already done some measurements in two of my posts if that helps new buyers.

But yeah, Yeahnah, i reckon we can get some steel tubing and perspex and make a better dust collection unit for under $50.

[YeahNah]

All the best with the wiring Bismar. I hope it isn't February before you actually get to use the new saw.