loft bed

[jane99]

Hi all

Saw a fantastic loft bed on the weekend and am considering incorporating it into our renovations. Wondering what others think of this, and what we need to think about. Our smallish spare room is next to our bathroom. Our ceilings are 3.25 metres, so the idea is that we'd lower the ceiling in the bathroom to a "normal" height (whatever that is, haven't investigated that yet). In the spare room we'd take out the top part of the wall between the bathroom and the spare room (don't know if I'm explaining this very well!) and the ceiling in the bathroom would become the floor in this space to create an area for a double bed. The bathroom is small - maybe 2.3 x 1.5metres, so we might have to have some sturdy shelves in the spare room against the wall under the loft bed to create a little additional floor space for the bed area. We'd also have to go into the roof space quite significantly to create enough space above the bed (otherwise there'd only be about 2 feet of height!). The biggest issues I can see are
1. that the beams are sturdy enough to support the new floor in the bed area, and
2. that the roof is supported.
Would appreciate your comments, Jane

[HappyHammer]

Welcome Jane,

Forgive my ignorance, what's a loft bed?

HH.

[craigb]

Sounds like it would be rather expensive to do (unless you're thinking of doing it yourselves).

You also might like to consider the issue of bathroom "noises". Might be a bit disconcerting for whomever is in the DB.

I dunno, but it might be a better option to do a roof conversion.

Craig

[jane99]

HH: A loft bed is the name I've given it - don't know what it really should be called - it's a bit like a mezzanine bed. The area would become a part of the spare room.

Craig: We have a carpenter who has helped us with alot of our renovations - he works really quickly on the days he comes and we work with him which means we get through a lot. Why do you think it would be expensive - labour, materials or both?

[craigb]

Hi Jane and welcome to the BB.

I only mentioned the expensive thing because if you called up a builder and asked him to give you a quote, in my experience, it would be expensive.

However, if you have a tame chippy and you play builder's labradour for him, then I guess it shouldn't be too dear to do what you want to do.

The only other thing I can think of is to check the building regs where you live to make sure you are allowed to do what you want to do.

Craig

[jane99]

Never thought of myself as a builder's labrador!

[craigb]

Never thought of myself as a builder's labrador!

It was a (feeble) joke. I forgot the smiley.

[Sturdee]

Jane,

Not only the bathroom noises would worry me but also the moisture in the bathroom. You would need good ventilation. But with suitable sound insulation and moisture barrier and ventilation it is possible.

Peter.

[jane99]

Hadn't thought about the "noises" angle! Was thinking of having chipboard and carpet for sound insulation from the top. The exhaust fan will have to be moved, maybe put it on the outside wall. The moisture barrier point is an interesting one - could you explain that further Peter. Thanks, Jane

[Sturdee]

Jane,

Bathrooms are notorious for their steamy atmosphere ( and the subsequent moisture condensation ) which normally will escape into the roof space through minor gaps etc.

My suggestion is to make sure, with liberal application of an appropriate gap filler, that there are no cracks etc in the ceiling and where it meets the wall and ventilate the space between the ceiling and your new floor to the outside.

I presume when you say a floor of chipboard you mean yellowtongue flooring sheets which are moisture resistant and not the ordinary chipboard.

As far as sound insulation there was a discussion on this board recently, do a search for more info.

Hope this helps.


Peter.

[seriph1]

hi

I have successfully done this, IF you mean by "loft bed" a loft bedroom ..... I created two, a couple of homes ago - there are several things to take into account further than what has been mentioned (again, this is referring to a loft bedroom)

-ample head height - which by the sounds of the existing ceiling height, you will have .... actually it sounds like you live in a Californian Bungalow or similar

-adequate and safe access stair - pain in the proverbial as they are a BIG s p a c e e a t e r.

- insulation, both sound and thermal - lofts sure get HOT in summer....and the reverse is the case in winter, often requiring assisted heating/cooling

- Removal of structural elements from the roof in order to build the room - "what's that creaking noise..........!" gulp.

- light and ventilation - roof windows, skylights, or dormer windows of various styles can be incorporated with great success and really make a loft room...... though they are a dead-giveaway to roaming permit-pirates (council inspectors) ..... not that you would "dream" of doing this without a permit! ;)

I am sure I can think of other considerations but as I may be way off track here, will leave it at that, other than to say if you would like to discuss it personally I am happy to do so and am more or less in Melbourne - check out my website for the place I did
www.geocities.com/seriph1

cheers

[seriph1]

re-reading your initial post, I think I am way off beam and suspect you mean something akin to a raised alcove in a nextdoor room, inside which is a bed ..... almost like the boxbeds of old, but up a ladder ..... yes?

if so .... apologies for the previous dissertation :)

[Sturdee]

..... though they are a dead-giveaway to roaming permit-pirates (council inspectors) ....



Steve,


I just love that description of these inspectors.


Peter.

[Toggy]

Peter,

We get to agree on something at last. Have to love that name. Maybe they will start to fly the 'jolly roger' on the car aerial. :D
I do suspect though that there may be one who is a member of this board. He's one of the good guys though.


Ken

[seriph1]

I knew my years as an adman would be useful one day

:)

[Sturdee]

Peter,

We get to agree on something at last. Have to love that name. Maybe they will start to fly the 'jolly roger' on the car aerial. :D
I do suspect though that there may be one who is a member of this board. He's one of the good guys though.


Ken

I am glad we finally agree on something Ken :) If there is one who is a member of this board he will be the exception that proves the rule. :D


Peter.

[Marc]

Our smallish spare room is next to our bathroom. Our ceilings are 3.25 metres, so the idea is that we'd lower the ceiling in the bathroom to a "normal" height (whatever that is, haven't investigated that yet). In the spare room we'd take out the top part of the wall between the bathroom and the spare room (don't know if I'm explaining this very well!) and the ceiling in the bathroom would become the floor in this space to create an area for a double bed. The bathroom is small - maybe 2.3 x 1.5metres, so we might have to have some sturdy shelves in the spare room against the wall under the loft bed to create a little additional floor space for the bed area. We'd also have to go into the roof space quite significantly to create enough space above the bed (otherwise there'd only be about 2 feet of height!). The biggest issues I can see are
1. that the beams are sturdy enough to support the new floor in the bed area, and
2. that the roof is supported.
Would appreciate your comments, Jane

Hi there!
You want to build a little mezzanine on top of your bathroom, accessible from the spare room.
Can be done, but check the hights. You need to keep 2.4 inside your bathroom and need 2.4 in the mezzanine if you want to keep it legal (check correct hight with your council). That is 4.8, plus the thickness of the floor/cieling. Your ceiling joists are probably only 4". If they run across the toilet and span only 1.5m you may be OKm if not you will need to repalce them for 6" to feel the floor solid and not springy, so we are already up to 4.95m. Add particleboard and carpet and you are very close to 5 meters. You say your celings are 3.25 - 5 = 1.75. Let's hope you have such space in your roof cavity, free of any roof structure. Of course you can call your loft bedroom a storing space, and so keep it much lower, say 1.9 meters ;-)

You can make the new 6" floor joists go over your lowered inside wall in cantilever to extending the mezzanine floor. The problem left is the stairs. Fixed stairs will probably take half your spare room or all of it, so you can choose a realy minimal spiral stair case if your room is big enough or a loft stair, of the retractable sort. There are a few on the market, of different quality (reflected in the price).
http://www.homesolutions.com.au/SubCategory.asp?catID=21&subCatID=79
Nice little project. Would go nice if combined with a proper good quality timber roof window the one that you can see through and open, they are not cheap but come with special double glass for heat/cold insulation.
http://www.velux.com/international/

[jane99]

Thanks for all your suggestions they're very helpful. Marc, the span is 1.6m, so we probably would have to have 6" floor joists, and would extend them to minimally extend the mezzanine floor - maybe put shelves or a cupboard underneath. Also, while the space in the roof cavity is huge, there is roof structure to deal with. Re. stairs our friends just have a "friendly" ladder, ie nice timber on a reasonable angle. Any ideas on the roof structure?

[seriph1]

Hi Jane -if you can, take a pic of the roof structure - that will give us plenty to go by regarding advice/opinion on what to do next .....

Also, considering the span is only 1.6 and theoretically for sleeping so will not have people walking, jumping on it or the like, there may not really be much need for 6inch joists.

All you may need to do is marry in the jack walls (the short walls you build between the "ceiling" and roof timbers) into the roof bearers and ceiling joists with secure fixings like bolts or joists hangers - this should firm everything up enough - there are other methods for removing flex too (like steel strapping) but what I mentioned should be ok as it effectively reduces your overall span, depending on where the fixings are along the whole thing (apologies for the lack of clarity here – bit hard to describe)

Re: ladders ..... made a nice one from Merbau decking for a similar application. Just rebated each “step” into the sides and screwed and glued them in place – filled the pre-drilled screw-holes with Victorian ash dowels as a feature.

Cheers

ps. stand by for what may be the worst drawing ever done

[Marc]

Impossible to comment on what can be removed/replaced and how and what needs to stay, re roof structure from err... no information at all. If I had to answer I would say don't tuch anything.
Better consult an expert 'in situ', and remeber that tile roofs are VERY heavy like many thousands of kilos heavy and that any change to the structure must be done in a conservative way.

Have fun
Marc

[seriph1]

as promised - a very shabby idea of what you can do - hope it gives at least a little bit of an idea .... as I drew this I thought to myself - how big is the bed to be? You will need at least 1600 wide for a queen sized bed - less for a double and so on ...... better to grab as much space as you can up in the roof when doing it I reckon.

:)

[Marc]

Steve, I like your "small print" ... made me laugh a while.

Not knowing which wall is the external and which way the roof goes, it is a wild guess, yet I agree with you that some of the new structure could be used to replace the structure that needs to be removed.
Also if need be, in the centre of the opening that looks into the room from the loft, there could be a post, supporting the roof and transmitting the load unto the wall below. Could be a 5"x5" of rustic appearance if that is the motif of the room. Nail a spike to it and hang a saddle from it, some hay stacked in a corner could have a good effect too . . . .well I live that to Jane ... :-)