parental responsibility

[jackiew]

In the what is your occupation thread there was a digression into a discussion of children with attention problems which, together with a broadcast I heard on the radio at the weekend, made me think about parental responsibility.

I found Derek’s remarks that the attention problems don’t excuse rudeness etc extremely enlightening. I have a friend whose extremely bright teenage son has “problems” which make me extremely unwilling to spend time in his company if I can possibly avoid it due to his poor behaviour.

I have to confess that there have been many times when I have wondered if his behaviour would be quite so appalling if his parents hadn’t been making excuses for him for the past 13 years.

The strongest response I’ve heard his mother make to behaviour which I wouldn’t tolerate by a 3 year old is “please don’t do that”. I can understand that she may just be too worn down to insist on better behaviour but I don’t think she’s doing him any favours in the long run. In fact I feel that as a parent it is here responsibility to equip him with skills which enable him to interact successfully with other people.

The radio program was about two 15 year olds in Western Australia who burned down two houses and whose parents have been ordered to make financial restitution according to their means to the victims of their crimes.

My understanding is that the parents were judged to have been negligent in their supervision of their sons and therefore liable to make recompense.

The legal expert interviewed appeared horrified at the ruling implying that it wasn’t appropriate to heavily supervise 15 year olds ( who had been getting into trouble for some period of time).

Her point seemed to be that the state hadn’t done anything to help these children so why should the parents be penalised for their failure to take responsibility for where their sons were and what they were doing.

I have to say that I was pretty appalled at her attitude … which seemed to totally ignore the fact that these two louts who don’t appear to have been mentally retarded and so presumably ought to know better at that age had committed criminal acts of some magnitude.

As a parent I’d feel morally obliged to make some kind of restitution anyway if my son had burned down someone’s house … and provided I still had the weight and height advantage he probably wouldn’t be sitting down again any time soon.

So what are the responsibilities of a parent … and when do they stop? Should we say when our children get to (say) 15 my job is done your behaviour is nothing to do with me? Or is it when they leave school or when they get to 18?

[Ivan in Oz]

Jackiew,
Why did you go there?
Would a wooden spoon keep it on topic?

I 'help' some of our youth in town. The ones who don't need it accept it.
Those who do need it refuse it.

I've heard some brag amongst themselves [so they thought]
about turning their symptoms on and off to suit.

The 'not so few' ruin it for the majority, AGAIN.

Soapbox mode ORF :(

Count

[Alastair]

Jackiew

As my comments in the other thread imply, I am 100% in agreement.

It doesn't have to be all negative. Hug them when they need it ( and when they don't!) and beat them when they deserve it (or whatever your alternative may be)

Do lots of both as required.

Do things as a family.

Laugh (lots)

Alastair

[silentC]

A very complex issue, Jackie. I think that there is no one silver bullet and that it will depend on so many things, including the personality of the kids and the parents, the environment in which they live, etc. etc.

Regarding the two kids that burned down that house, they obviously had problems to begin with. Maybe the parents could have done more? My mum would probably say that they needed a good hiding every now and then. Didn't hurt me when I was a kid and I generally have respect for others. Maybe that's why. On the other hand, you get dragged off to court and charged with assault if you go around doing that sort of thing these days.

So if they get to 15 and they've turned into scumbags, what do you do? Do you blame yourself or wash your hands of it? Perhaps parents should be able to divorce kids too?

Thinking about the kids I went to school with, the majority were basically good at heart, even some of the badly-behaved ones. They knew where to draw the line. On the other extreme, one of my school buddies at 17 years of age went to Sydney and murdered a cab driver by tying him up, locking him in the boot, and setting it on fire. Apparently for the hell of it. His brothers and sister were happy, good-natured kids at school. What happened to him? Was it his parent's fault?

I think that a lot of control is taken out of parents' hands these days. I know if either of my kids starts down that path, they will come to a short stop on the end of my boot but I also know that if they want they can take that 'power' away from me too.

[PaulS]

Jackie
I have a mate who is a school principal, he reckons teaching is so much harder now because teachers have to also deal with discipline, and spend time dealing with that when they could be teaching them stuff. And it gets back to parents and their responsiblity to their kids.

A lot of things parents i think sub-contract out their responsibilty for their childrens behaviour to the school who aren't resourced to cope.

My wifes brother is a motor mechanic and he reckoned that anyone who drives a car should do a course in basic car maintainence. My wife (a preschool teacher) reckons anyone who has kids should do a course too!!

It really is a problem for society to deal with, in previous generations the extended family and local community shared and helped out new parents. These days I reckon we have lost extended families and a sense of community, and parents reckon they can do what ever they think is best.

Just some thoughts to a very complex issue.

[John Saxton]

Growing up in what I would deem a well adjusted family with all the love and attention that could be afforded a large family we were rewarded for good behaviour and chastised by unseemly /improper behaviour by having those things/treats we valued denied us for a while.
Out parents used a good psychological approach without the need for physical reproach in the upbringing in those halcyon days of 40's,50's 60's.

It appeared a 'Sign" of the times that in a small town growing up then, good manners and behaviour were very much an expected norm.
Should anyone cross those boundaries then which did naturally happen he/she was castigated by the town or a virtual outcast,but some of those folk have since also become leading lights within the community in todays terms.

In my view society over the evolving decades could go back and look at the conventions leading to todays ills involving our folk of today and the "I want at any cost mentality" that appears endemic in modern society irrespective of the hurt that be caused by it.

Just last week we had front page news here in the West of a nine year old young fellow having been party to 60 odd break-ins or other anti-social acts with the police powerless to act because of his age.

Unfortunately I don't have any answers neither does society in my view otherwise we would not be in this predicament.

Just my views with no intended bias
Cheers :)

[Wood Borer]

Jackview,

I think it is something to do with the way you bring children up. I don't agree with assaulting kids neither do I agree with letting them run riot. Leading by example worked well with our two who are both responsible adults. No, they are not little goody goodies but a pleasure to spend time with, people we are proud to call our kids.

When our daughter did something wrong, rather than whack her, I used to hold her hand and slowly move my finger towards the held hand. When my finger touched her hand she would become upset not because I had hurt her but because she understood she had hurt us by misbehaving.

In other words we put in a lot of time making our kids aware of their responsibilities and being aware of how their actions affect others. This was done in a loving and caring environment.

So what do you do with little Johnny who is 15 and making life a misery for everyone else? I suggest you proclaim to the world that your approach to bringing up kids does not work and strongly advise other parents not to bring their kids up that way. Perhaps Johnny is a lost cause in most cases.

In a similar way, how do you straighten a leaning tree that is 1m in diameter and 30m tall? Perhaps staking it 50 years ago might have been the approach.

Perhaps there are some kids born with some chemical imbalance in their heads that causes them not to behave responsibly, for that professional advice should have been sought when they were still in the crib not after they are vandalsing, stealing, raping and burning.

Although we only have one grandchild (another well on the way) she is also well behaved and a pleasure to babysit.

Perhaps we were blessed with two good kids or perhaps it was their upbringing or perhaps it was both, either way they turned out OK and we are happy.

- Wood Borer

[jackiew]

Ivan, why did I raise the thread? well it obviously was a big digression to what is your occupation!!!!

As the part-time parent of a teenager who will ( I assume ) soon be flexing his wings and pushing at the boundaries even harder than ever I'm interested in how other people cope.

I come from a "traditional" working class background with older than average parents and older than average grandparents ... and I was brought up with very clear boundaries for what was appropriate and inappropriate behaviour and very clear penalties for transgressions.

I was no angel but I knew damn well that if I got caught there would be consequences to face and my misdeeds were performed with an acceptance that I would probably not enjoy what would happen if I got caught.

My style of parenting reflects my upbringing but I am aware that I now seem to be in the minority.

I expect my son to adhere to certain standards of behaviour when he lives in my house at my expense. In return he'll be fed, clothed and chauffeured about( within reason). I'm his parent, I don't expect that he'll always like me, I'm not his friend and he didn't choose me. But he can expect me to try to do the right thing by him while he's under my roof. I can see its going to get harder as he gets older ... so at what age do you stop asking ... where are you going, who will you be with , what time are you getting back ... and at what age are you justified in still saying ... its a school night you aren't going out.

[Ivan in Oz]

Ivan, why did I raise the thread? well it obviously was a big digression to what is your occupation!!!!

I'm his parent, I don't expect that he'll always like me,

I'm not his friend and he didn't choose me.


Jackiew,
Wow!
Most of that was just like a MIRROR.

Parents and Grand Parents in their 40 when they had kids,
and Guess what,
I was 40 when I started :eek:


> I'm his parent, I don't expect that he'll always like me,
> I'm not his friend and he didn't choose me.

Nah!!
I'd like to be their friend, whilst remaining a 'good' parent.
Who's going to define 'GOOD' ?

Count

[jackiew]

Jackiew,

I'd like to be their friend, whilst remaining a 'good' parent.

Count

don't think you can be their friend ( well at least not at the time ) and still be a good parent sometimes.

I can't be the only one who can still hear mum/nan's voice still ringing in my ears ... "I don't care whether you want to do it or not, you're doing it anyway". At the time I didn't necessarily think they had my best interests at heart. In hindsight I mostly think they did.

I'm going on a road trip soon with my mum and my son. Should be a good opportunity to find out if we actually like each other :rolleyes:

[gemi_babe]

I think the problem is is that single parenting is so common these days and that lacks the balance of female/male role models in the home.

I am a single mum, have been since my son was 6 weeks old and the father then realised he didn't want that responsibility over his head :mad: .

It is a tough game to play both parents and constantly. I try to be his friend, but you give an inch they take a mile.
If there is workmen here, he talks their ears off. He knows what is missing from his life and its a shame that it turned out this way. But I do my best to raise him with morals and respect for others. BUT if he burns down someones house and I raised him to the best of my ability and he knew right from wrong, I wont pay up. That was his choice, not mine.

I was brought up in a stable home with Mum and Dad. An older bro and sis. We moved every 3 years thanks to the RAAF. I was a ratbag and lied, slept out and mum never knew where I was. I told her one thing and did another. From 13 onwards kids know right from wrong and only a minority would of been neglected in thier upbringing.

I also heard too, that making parents pay will only be ruled for those that can afford to pay. :mad: But that is from the media and we should never trust what we hear or read.

Sorry to ramble,
gemi

[LineLefty]

Surely the forum record for the longerst average reply!

Well here's my thoughts.

I'm scheduled to become a dad in 5 weeks at the relatively young age of 25. I was also brought up in a moral house where we got a good old fashioned smack when we did something wrong. And I turned out all right.

Well actually, I turned out allright because I was smarter than my parents in realising that resorting smacking is for those who's parenting skills require them to resort to physical violence and intimidation to control their kids. I When I was being "good" I was actually sitting their mute, fearful and full of hate. Not really conducive to learning is it?


I dont really care what the old-timers say, I'm 6'3 and 100kg and I'm certainly not going to use violence, pain and the threat of pain to discipline my child - thats abuse.

It is on display so often at your local shopping centre, mum ignores kids, then yells at them to stop mucking around, they dont, yells some more, then whack. 2 minutes later, they're back at it because they know they can get away with it for X period of time.

I'd love to see some research, but I would bet all my $$ Tha those 15yr olds and all the problem kids in the papers had the living beaten out of them regularly.

I apologies if I'm blunt, and I understand that many people will think "You dont know what your in for mate". My answer is that I've watched my wife handle a up to 20 toddlers in a room (thats her job) without ever resorting to intimidation, threats or negativity. The difference is that most of "good old fashioned smackers" think that a room full of well behaved kids is a quiet one, when in fact it should be noisy as hell from healthy happy kids who arent living in fear of their "loving" parents

phew, that feels better.
(I have this argument with my smackhappy sister)

[LineLefty]

And let me just say, that having been a teenager quite recently (ahem) I know I did some pretty bad stuff, and was just an all round pain. Given that I was too old to smack anymore, Mum & Dad had lost their only discipline tool. It would have been nice if:

I actually respected them
They knew just a little bit about me
I was able to talk to them about the issues that all teens go thru.

Basically, if I could have been "friends" with them. Instead they had a similar attitude to Jackview and I really didnt give a stuff what they thought about me or my actions.

The further downside to that parenting style, is now that I'm an adult and starting a family of my own, with a different parenting style, I'm labeled a snob and w@nker

Dont get me wrong, Kids need limits, enforced by their understanding of and involvement in those limits. What are good are limits designed to suit the inadequacies of parents, and enforced by exactly the type of behaviour that you're trying to prevent?

Book me in derek, I need an appointment.

[Sturdee]

I came from a large family and my parents have never smacked or hit me. But when we, the younger ones, played up too much my elder brothers were not adverse to belting us in order to keep the peace at home. Whilst I did not always agree with them because of their attitude I learned to respect them.

I have never hit my kids, as I would instead withdraw priveliges, and they grew up allright, so good luck Line lefty.

Peter.

[echnidna]

Well most of the comments that have been made here are by people who haven't experienced the unrelenting antisocial behaviour that some kids adopt.

The old saying that there is a bad apple in every barrel can be devastating when its your apple.

Two of my kids are wonderful well balanced caring adults but the third should have been drowned as a pup. If kids get into the wrong peer group that can create untold harm.

[Barry_White]

This maybe over simplefying the problem but I feel it comes down to the "Soggy Chip Syndrome"

Most kids would prefer to have nice fresh crisp hot chips but if they can't get them they will settle for Cold Soggy Chips.

That is a bit like the attention they receive. If they can't get quality loving attention they will settle for any type of attention they can get and they can be assured of getting that by bad behaviour.

[TassieKiwi]

Linelefty

I'm a parent of two awesome loveable bouncy vivacious willful manipulating dramaqueen pre-schoolers. I would like to have this conversation in 4yrs time, when you have experienced what you must, and reacted as you must, to the immense and varied responsibilities of being a parent. Judge then - not now. Good luck, and love'em to bits.

Den

[gemi_babe]

I too thought I would be the 'perfect' parent and that my child will never scream, tantrum out in public but nothing ever goes to plan.
I was smacked by the hand, the spoon and it only stopped when I could run faster then my dad...oh they were the days hahahaha Me and my dad laugh at that. He fell over while chasing me but at that stage I had learnt respect and they knew the need for smacking was not there anymore.

Linelefty what you may find out is that most children will behave like angels when not in the company of their parents.
My son is an absolute angel when being looked after by his grandparents, at kindy and when he went to a daycare when I was forced back to work. The most frustrating time of my life when I walk into the room see him obeying and being a really loveable kid. Bring him home and its back to Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde (spelling?).

I have tried being the calm patient nice parent but the thing I have learnt is that you can't argue with a toddler. They have no reasoning.
Take something away from him, he doesn't care. He will go play with rocks and sticks to amuse himself.

Everyone has their own personality and some kids have stronger ones than others. My son is very strong headed, thick skinned and nothing much bothers him. How would you discipline that?

Good Luck :D

Gemi

[silentC]

LineLefty, that's all very laudable but I can't wait to hear how you got on. Do let us know, say in 5 years? If you have NEVER smacked your kid, then you will truly deserve my awe. In the meantime, try not to be too judgemental of people who have already been, or are still going through it. Walk a mile in my shoes as they say.

[Zed]

my old man used to bash me - it made me smarter - it didnt make me behave any better though. I abhor violence in any form except as a last resort. i have no kids so am not qualified to comment except thus :

"violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"

whether you choose to ignore. disagree or agree is your choice - dont bash your kids - not good.

[silentC]

Zed, nobody is talking about bashing anyone. At least I hope not. I would sooner jump off a cliff than do anything that would physically injure one of my kids and if I saw anyone else doing it, they would be the one going over the cliff.

What I am talking about is what most reasonable people understand as a 'smack'. This is where you strike them across the arm or the leg with the fingers of an open hand so that it makes a sound but does not sting. You can do this to yourself. If it hurts, it's too hard. That's what most people mean when they talk about smacking their kids.

My two don't get smacked very often but every now and then it's the only way to get through to them. I may be incompetent as a parent but then how many people are competent in that regard? It's not like they give you an instruction manual at the hospital. You learn on the job and it's a 24 hour 7 day a week job. You make mistakes and you find what works for you and your kids. Sometimes you lose your cool. It's life, not a TV show.

[Wongo]

There is no magic formula but for our 3yr girl it is

100% love = 90% reason + 10% discipline.

I discipline my daughter when I think I need to. Sometimes I take her to the corner and talk to her face to face. Sometimes I hit her on her palm gently. Yes I believe it is necessary, she needs to know I am the boss. If you don’t teach them while they still listen then they never will.

It is our child, we brought her to this world, we love her and take care of her so I think we have the right to choose what we think is the best way to raise her.
:)

[LineLefty]

Hmm,

The reasoning that I havent dealt with a screamnig 4yr old is a plausible one and I'm definitely not saying that our children will be angels.

It's simple a philsophical stand that I hope....know, will ast throughout my parenthood. That is, that I dont want to teach me child that the way to solve problems is through violence and intimidation.

Take the child away from the problem, take the problem away from the child, let them know your anger in no uncertain terms.

It strikes me as unusual that many people seem to say that they have kids who have "run off the rails" or are just all round pains in the bum. I ask you, did smacking them make any difference?

Please, try to understand the difference between a parent who chooses not to smack/intimidate and one who chooses to set no limits.

Havign read through my last to posts, I apologise for being a tad (just a tad!) judgemental :o . Theres a difference between those who use a light smack and those shopping centre painmongers.

MY parenting style experienced is limited only to my extended - ethnic - family where smacking was used as a first up discipline tool. I've yet to havea good conversation with a parent who had similar intentions to us but failed, I'd like to though.

And dont worry, I'll keep you posted.

[silentC]

Contrary to a lot of what you hear, I believe that kids are born hard-wired in a lot of ways. You can probably modify their behaviour with extreme action on either end of the scale but I reckon a lot of what you get is down to genes. If that were not true, all of your kids would behave identically. I can tell you that I am quite different in many ways to both of my sisters, as they are from each other, yet there are only 3 years between us and so our parents' parenting style can't have been that different.

I consider myself lucky that both of my kids are good most of the time. Conversely, I think that some parents are unlucky. I hope you are one of the lucky ones.

[PAH1]

HI all

I am the parent of twin 2yr old boys, they are adorale but also wilful. They have limits of behaviour already and know that there are consequences for their behaviour. When they hurt each other, generally out of a quick bout of unreasoning madness, they are made to say sorry and hug the other. Rarely is anything more required, but note it is rarely, they try many things out just to see what happens. In doing this they are normal but you do need to set boundaries and enforce them consistently not just when you can be bothered.

I was at one stage a school teacher, I now have a PhD my wife an MSc, does this make us better parents? Not really, but thinking ahead of the situation helps. I think that the greatest thing that you can teach your children is that there are consequences to their actions, ie good you get praised (and I do not mean line lefty's sit there and be quiet as good) bad and you know that you are not going to like the result.

My two sons are very different and require very different means in dealing with their beahviour. One is a "daddy's boy" and can be disciplined by simply indicating that you are very upset with him, this would happen on average 1 time a week at the moment. The other is more obstinate and requires that you are simply more plain in what you expect and that once the incident is over that everything is alright again between him and you, frequency is about the same as the other.

To pose another question, when I was in Yr 12 one of the Yr7 students killed an unconscious aboriginal man with a shovel because his mates dared him to do it. Was it upbringing or just a bad kid?

[LineLefty]

(and I do not mean line lefty's sit there and be quiet as good)

To pose another question, when I was in Yr 12 one of the Yr7 students killed an unconscious aboriginal man with a shovel because his mates dared him to do it. Was it upbringing or just a bad kid?

One of my 12yr old cousins was diagnosed with ADHD and is on the dexies. He now sits at the barbecue quietly, not talking to anyone and obediently obeys his parents. The whoel family praises him and thinks it's wonderful.

I think I was the onyl one who thinks it's a bit sad.

Also, without knowign the details of this case.......................seriously though, theres an element of bad parenting but also, a child has to have the emotional capacity to do that in the first place.

[PAH1]

One of my 12yr old cousins was diagnosed with ADHD and is on the dexies. He now sits at the barbecue quietly, not talking to anyone and obediently obeys his parents. The whoel family praises him and thinks it's wonderful.

I think I was the onyl one who thinks it's a bit sad.



Actually I agree with you. There is growing evidence that the drugs that they use to control this sort of thing do nothing to help what is actually going on in the childs brain ie they are not helping at all. What they help is the parents and teachers who have to deal with them because now they have a docile child who can be dealt with but the problem is still there.

My nephew has PDD-Nos (At least thats what they call it in dutch) and he can be dealt with by those who have the training and time to be able to do it. He moved to a new school and the teachers did not have the time and suddenly it was demanded that he be medicated or he would be removed from the school. He was targeted because of the group he was in he was the one that had something that would respond to medication thus freeing up teacher time for other students.

[LineLefty]

if all else fails, I'll just whip out the #4 and take a few shavings. That'll teach them a lesson.

[silentC]

What they help is the parents and teachers who have to deal with them because now they have a docile child who can be dealt with but the problem is still there
We probably can't imagine the hell that parents of kids like this go through. It's probably the only thing that keeps them from commiting infanticide.

It's a very good point though. A friend of ours was diagnosed with post-natal depression (that's another one you might find out about, Adam). She was also having problems with her husband, who wanted to carry on his old life of going to the pub with his mates every night. She threatened to leave him a number of times. They put her on anti-depressants and they made her much calmer but she just let hubby do what he wanted and it didn't bother her. She got fed up with taking them because they made her feel so lethargic and docile and went off them for awhile. Of course the trouble started up again. She's back on them now. It's not helping her much but it's making the hubby's life easier.

[gemi_babe]

My nephew was diagnosed ADD at age 5. Was on the drugs for 5 years. His school work improved slightly ie handwritting. Fortunetly he has grown up, now 15 and has learnt to control his behaviour and is off the drugs but his mother, my sister, had post natal depression undiagnosed for the first 6 years of his life so was it his mothers "can't be bothered" attitude due to the depression that made him an uncontrollable 5 year old or was it ADD??

I think ADD and ADHD is in some cases an excuse for slack parents. I don't think it is diagnosed through blood taken or chemical inbalances monited in the brain, It's (my nephew was) diagnosed by a shrink and instead of making mums and dads curve the diet they throw drugs at them.
Artificial foods these days are not only causing more sickness, cancers it is also the reason we have so many uncontrollable children.

I took my son off all artificial sweetners and he is a much nicer, calmer child most of the time. I bake my own bread and we don't have take-aways anymore.

Cheers,
Kylie

[Alastair]

More cents worth on the above...

The smack/not smack debate can go on forever. It is easy to say that "I take a moral stand not to smack", but remember, if you get it wrong, by the time you find out, it is way too late to correct the error, and another life has been stuffed up by the experiment.

This is just as true for the reverse, I accept.

To digress, as we evolved, before the days of moral stands, and psychologists, it is likely that our behaviour patterns, mores and codes probably evolved apace. There was unlikely to be much latitude for the neanderthal kid who refused to sit quietly while the sabre-tooth walked past the cave.

I believe, when looked at across a range of "primitive" societies, and our other primate relatives, that the discipline imposed is generally immediate, and physical, and seldom brutal. There is unlikely however to be the command "go up to your branch, and stay there until you want to behave"

Along with this, is the fact that we evolved as a communal animal, where any disciplining would have taken place in public view. As such, there was a community brake on the development of any excessive punishment. This is still evident in eg african communities, where the mothers' brothers are those responsible for the discipline and physical wellbeing of a child.

With the modern move to nuclear families, these communal controls and safeguards are disabled, and the upsurge in abuse is inevitable. However, a 'smack" as discipline, is not abuse.

However, kids have a short attention span, and a quick, direct smack in response to unacceptable behaviour is, I believe, far more effective than deprival of priviledges, which by definition has to drag on, and lose its relevance.

This aside, however: The important thing is that the censure, whatever it is, is understood, expected, (warn first) and inevitable. It must also be stuck to. This is much simpler with a smack on the bottom, than for instance enforcing "No TV for 2 weks for you". The danger is that when it is not followed through, it becomes ineffective. Therin, to me lies the biggest contributor to the problem

My kids were smacked (not beaten) when their behaviour required, from when thy were small. They were always warned, and 'when', (not if) they repeated it to see if you 'really' meants it, they always were punished. They always knew why they were punished, and it was always done immediately, by the closest available parent. There was no 'wait until dad gets home', and once dealt with by one parent, the issue was closed.

They are now 11 & 13. I doubt if either has been smacked, except as a token to make an extreme point in 3 years. They are not cowed or submissive, and are as argumentative as hell about anything which comes up, but the habits and self discipline inculcated earlier mean that they are accepting of our role as final arbiters, not because they are scared of what we will do.

Enough of a long rambling rant on a contentious subject, which is unlikely to reach any conclusion. It is interesting to see the varied viewpoints, however.

Alastair

[jackiew]

LineLefty if you can bring up your kids with no smacking etc then all credit to you. Its an admirable aim and most of us set out with the aim of using little or no punishment.

The parents smacking their kids in the supermarket are having one of the more miserable experiences of life, trying to shop with a whiny child is the pits. It would be great if shopping could always be a fun relaxed experience for parents and kids but mostly it isn't. :(

Looking after 20 kids in a nursery or prep class would be my idea of hell and I have absolute admiration for anyone who can do it. I suspect however that its easier than looking after 3 kids at home when you're trying to do all the household chores at the same time. And at the nursery you know that home time will eventually arrive. At home you're stuck with it 24 x 7 with no time off for good behaviour.

If you can give them your undivided attention kids are fantastic. Unfortunately we often can't give them our undivided attention. Sometimes the parent in charge has to cook tea, do the shopping, hang out the washing etc etc. At which point Junior decides to torture the cat, poor talc down the ducted heating vents or do anything to get back that undivided attention even at the risk of a clip round the ear or loss of privileges.

By the way I don't endorse beating children ( although I'd make an exception if my offspring had burnt down someone's house ... in fact I'd probably wouldn't intervene if the owner of the house beat him to a pulp as I figure he'd deserve it).




It would have been nice if:

I actually respected them
They knew just a little bit about me
I was able to talk to them about the issues that all teens go thru.

Basically, if I could have been "friends" with them.

Don't get me wrong when I say that I'm not my son's friend ... I'm not saying that I don't have what appears (to me at least )to be a good relationship with him... I'm saying that there are times when he can't do what he wants to do just because he wants to do it.

When he was smaller those would be the times when he didn't get his way and he would scream at me that he hated me, that he didn't want me to be his mum etc etc. And your child probably will frequently "hate" you too. Its grim when it happens but in my opinion the result when parents continually give way to their kids trying to be their friends is even worse.

My son's dad was 24 when my son was born and I think most of his mates were horrified that he was going to be a dad at that age.

The only bit of advice I would give you is keep an eye on the balance between parents with respect to time to do the fun things with the baby and time to spend on their own interests.

Sadly its often the dad that gets to spend time with the kid doing nothing else but play and then goes off to the football by himself whereas mum only gets to spend time playing time with the kid by stealing it from the pile of ironing, the washing up or some other chores that are still going to have to be done and as a result has little or no time to herself ever.

[Honest Gaza]

I have 3 children....17, 12 & 3. I must admit, that my discipline techniques have altered over the years. The 17 year old was unlucky enough to get me at my "least experienced" as a parent...and as a result...got the proverbial boot up the **** on occasions. The 12 year old, and now the 3 year old, get me as a parent who is more prepared to "negotiate". However, a stern voice does work wonders.

Both of them know that if negotiations fail.....I am prepared to offer a smack to the backside.

As someone previously mentioned, I too have made it patently clear to my wife that if the children muck up while I am at work....she has to deal with the punishment. Don't let me be the bad man when I get home.

[Barry_White]

My kids have grown up and left home and of course I have taken their keys off them so that they can't come back home.

My two daughters didn't give us much problems but my son was pretty difficult but at the age of 35 has turned out OK.

I have a nephew though whose mother was a single mum and he was a real monster especially if he had sweet things etc. to eat and would bash into adults and was uncontrollable.

I would have diagnosed him as so called ADD or ADHD with his behaviour but my opinion has changed for his mother has married a policeman when he was aged 6 who started to administer loving discipline. He is now 8 years old and he is now a real gentleman and a pleasure to be around as well as being very intelligent.

I have changed my opinion on some so called ADD and ADHD diagnoses and really believe loving discipline that sets boundries for some of these kids.

The trouble is that a lot of parents set conflicting boundries for their kids and this causes a lot of the problems.

I know in hindsite that I could have done better with my son and I was probably the cause of some of his bad behaviour. But as Silent C said the trouble is that they dont come with a user manual

[Wongo]

Treat your kid like you treat your Tryton. Handle it with of care. Spend time to set it up probably. Knock it with a small hammer and screw driver occasionally. :eek:

Warning: do not paint you kids orange and do not return them. :cool:

Sorry guys :p

[Sturdee]

Warning: do not paint you kids orange.



But you can dress them in orange :) Just like the Orange people. :D


Peter.

[gemi_babe]

Tough Love vs. Smacking

Most of the population think it very improper to spank children, so my hubby and I have tried other methods to control our kids when they have one of "those moments".

One that we found very effective is for me to just take the child for a car ride and talk. They usually calm down and stop misbehaving after our little car ride together.

I've included the photo below of one of my sessions, with our son, in case you would like to use the technique.

Its very effective! Let me know how you go and if its as effective for you as it was for us.

[gatiep]

MMMMM I'll also pull a face like that if the steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car, and especially if we're driving on the right!


:eek:

[Alastair]

Go Gemi!!