Ridges in Hard Shellac

[Ben from Vic.]

OK, so I've done a search and read about other peoples experiences with ridges in HS, and now I have 2 questions.....

I applied the HS with a brush, and I think I can figure out how I made most of the ridges and how to get rid of them (practice!!!), but my question is, would applying with a pad/rubber reduce the ridges, potentialy being easier to give a more even application and having less defined edges than a brush?

Second, when applying HS which is worse, a warm day or a windy day? And by worse I mean makes it go off faster.

Oh, I'm applying the HS to a serving tray of less than 2sq. ft.


Ben

[spectre]

You can also get rid of ridges by sanding, best brush results are with a polishing mop, or steal a decent make up brush from your wife. They give a much more even flow of a shellac type product than any other brush will. Very dense and soft, usually something like badger hair.

A pad will always give you a smoother application than any brush, and shouldn't really leave any ridges at all... for this type of surface easiest result is usually a mix of the two. Brush 2-3 coats to get some film thickness up, give it a sand to get it flat and swap to the pad or rubber. Obviously the rubber leaves a far thinner coat than a brush so if you use it from start to finish it will take far longer.

Lastly hot or windy... either would be pretty equally an anathema to a brush coating, as they steal the solvent from the finish before it gets a chance to sit and level as much as it can. On the other hand with a pad/rubber you'd actually be able to get more done as the surface will harden far faster than it would on a cooler day. Enabling you to keep applying more and more coats with relative ease.

Regards

[Ben from Vic.]

You can also get rid of ridges by sanding

Yes, I tried this and have provided myself with another opportunity for practice as I sanded through in some spots.:rolleyes:
My brush technique can certainly do with some practise, thanks for the advice spectre.

[Tex B]

I've found it helpful to thin the shellac before brushing. Polisher's Handbook recommends adding 25% meth, which was great on vertical surfaces but I needed a bit more on flat surfaces.

(this is assuming you're using the UBeaut Hard Shellac)

Tex

[Ben from Vic.]

OK, I wet/dry sanded back the HS, sanded through the HS (of course:rolleyes:) and now the timber in some parts is staying a milky white, like sanded poly, and some parts are refusing to gloss, even after 5 or 6 coats of HS. To re-cap, I started with Dewaxed White/Talc sanded back (dry) applied HS sanded back (wet) and now I'm having problems. I'm suspecting that the water may be the cause. btw, there was more than a week between wet sanding and re-applying the HS, so everything was dry.

whadoido?

[Groggy]

Ben, what sort of brush are you using and how large is the surface?

I recently had a chat to Uncle Neil ( :D ) and he recommended a camel hair bulb style brush. I haven't been able to locate a camel hair version yet but I did find one in Spotlight that had the correct shape. It was a lot better than the other brushes I have used for shellac as it held lots of shellac and I could control the release from the brush better. I have had the same problem with earlier attempts and think it can also be caused by the brush having insufficient shellac on it so it dries and smears instead of flowing on.

Try a sample on a long-ish board using a reasonable amount of shellac. This is where a good brush comes in to play and is, I suspect, why Neil likes the shape he recommended to me. I'll try to find a pic and post it for you.

EDIT: Here is a link to a very good article on shellac (http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm) by Jeff Jewitt

http://rosemal.com/images/13-Oval-Mop-Camel-H.jpg

[robyn2839]

why not spray the shellac, ? i always spray mine does in 20 mins what would take days by hand and a far superior finish.i usually apply the last two coats with more metho than the main coats and it turns out like glass ,i like to do it on a warm day when spraying ................bob

[Ben from Vic.]

Thanks bob, could you tell me about your setup?

[Chesand]

A few years ago I got a brush similar to that which Groggy has mentioned from Paint-Right. I think the correct term is "Mop Brush". It was not cheap but certainly holds the shellac well and spreads it evenly

[Ben from Vic.]

After trying a non mop brush, I think that the advantage with the mop would be that it is less likely to leave a ridge at the edge of the brush as they are more rounded edges.

[ubeaut]

More likely to be the fact that regular brush only has about 5% of the number of hairs. Ie a 25mm mop could have around 50,000 super fine soft hairs where a 75mm standard brush may only have 2,500. Hence ridges because of the coarseness as opposed to none due to the fineness of the bristles in the mop.

The difference is astounding. Not only that but a good 25mm mop will hold more polish than a 75mm common garden variety bristle brush. Unless of course the bristle brush is a superfine natural hair brush like the one being made in this film (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/extra/images/brush/MakeAbrushShortX.mov) (fascinating to watch) on the making of a Gramercy Tools Finishing Brush.

European Ox hair brush heads.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/extra/images/brush/GramercyBrushHeads.gif
European Ox hair is exactly that. Made from the hair found in the ears of European Oxen it is the finest hair used for finishing brushes. Before spraying finish was invented, finishers in both the woodworking and enamelling industries (including early automobile makers) looked for the softest fullest brushes to apply the best, brush-mark free finishes possible. European Ox, Badger, Squirrel, and Fitch were the favoured choices. Of these types of hair only European Ox is still available in the quantity and at the cost to make an affordable, yet high performance brush.

Cheers - Neil :D

PS the examples above of hairs in brushes is purely guess work and just to give an example of the difference in hairs and quality between a mop and a regular brush.

[Groggy]

Wow, she really fusses with them.

[Stef]

why not spray the shellac, ? i always spray mine does in 20 mins what would take days by hand and a far superior finish.i usually apply the last two coats with more metho than the main coats and it turns out like glass ,i like to do it on a warm day when spraying ................bob


Robyn2839 i would also like to spray my HS but i allways thought it would dry pretty much as it left the gun. Whats your mixing ratio, im keen to give it a go.:2tsup:

Cheers Stef.

[ubeaut]

Purchased a set of three of those brushes a couple of years ago an used one for the first time today to put a couple of coats of Hard Shellac onto a stool made by Big Stan Ceglinski for Pauline.

It is absolutely fantastic. The finish is literally free from brush marks and the polish (2 metho to 1 hard shellac) flowed on effortlessly and looks a million dollars with just 2 coats.

Can't recommend these brushes highly enough. Brilliant.... http://www.ubeaut.biz/woohoo.gif

118022

Gramercy Tools Finishing Brush (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/gt/big/GT-SHEBRUXX_big.gif) :2tsup:

Cheers - Neil :U

[Stef]

Robyn2839 i would also like to spray my HS but i allways thought it would dry pretty much as it left the gun. Whats your mixing ratio, im keen to give it a go.:2tsup:

Cheers Stef.

I played around with a 50/50 mix and sprayed the shellac, this is certainlly the best way that i have tryed and now will be the only way i will apply it. So if anyone wants to try and spray it i hope this helps.


Cheers Stef.

[Fencepost2]

Thanks for that tip Neil. Gramercy are a USA company. Does your recommendation extend to the kinds of Ox hair brushes we can get from local suppliers, or is there something special about the Gramercy ones?

[Ben from Vic.]

Purchased a set of three of those brushes a couple of years ago an used one for the first time today to put a couple of coats of Hard Shellac onto a stool made by Big Stan Ceglinski for Pauline.

It is absolutely fantastic. The finish is literally free from brush marks and the polish (2 metho to 1 hard shellac) flowed on effortlessly and looks a million dollars with just 2 coats.

Can't recommend these brushes highly enough. Brilliant.... http://www.ubeaut.biz/woohoo.gif

Cheers - Neil :U

Neil are you able to lay down two parallel brush strokes that meet perfectly with no gap or overlap? I used the brush pictured and the biggest problem I had was the overlap or gap between the strokes

[ubeaut]

If you're going to WWWShow I can show you a piece that's straight off the brush that's almost perfect. Was going to finish it with EEE at the show but will leave it if you're coming down.

I did 3 coats of 1part shellac to 3 parts metho. then wet sanded with 800 grit and 1 coat of full strength. If you're having problems with brush marks (whitness lines) then you can retard the drying time somewhat and allow the shellac to slump (flatten) by adding a small amount of n-butanol. Should be able to get it at a half decent paint shop.... Should. Doesn't mean you will, but keep trying if the first one doesn't have any. Haymes used to have it yonks ago. Don't know if they still do.

Have heard off someone using mineral turps for the same thing but personally I 'd be a bit warey of that myself, could make coats delaminate.

Cheers :U

[Ben from Vic.]

Thanks for the offer Neil, but I won't be attending the WW show, have just bought a car and the only way to not spend is to not attend.:C Will keep an eye out for the n-butanol. I think our dry weather doesn't help. Appreciate the advice.

Ben.