What's the law on pulling apart electrical things in Qld?

[qld]

so anything with bare wires you cant touch?

If you pull apart and re assemble a lightbulb connection is that technically illegal?

[RETIRED]

Yep, unless you are licenced. Pretty much the same Australia-wide.

[echnidna]

you are not permitted to service electrical stuff unless you have appropriate qualifications

[qld]

Is there any laws you have to test your electrical equipment every 5 years and put a tag on them or anything like that at your private home?

[munruben]

Is there any laws you have to test your electrical equipment every 5 years and put a tag on them or anything like that at your private home?Not that I've heard of but I am sure someone with the right qualifications can tell us for sure.

[artme]

Thorny issue. If we are not allowed to touch this stuff why is it freely on sale to the public?:?:?:?

[qld]

Thorny issue. If we are not allowed to touch this stuff why is it freely on sale to the public?:?:?:?

We are only allowed to do the simple things. Plug plug into socket. Turn on switch.

We are not allowed to unscrew screws or disassemble electrical wires.

I suppose

[echnidna]

Because apart from electrcians, there are a number of trades and technicians who are permitted to perform various electrical works.

[Honorary Bloke]

Alright, move along . . . nothing to see here. . . move along. :cop:

[qld]

Honorary Bloke do they have similar rules in america?

[Honorary Bloke]

Honorary Bloke do they have similar rules in america?

No. :) Our whole system works differently.

[rhancock]

So I can't rewire a table lamp?

What about changing the plug?

I've got half a dozen UK plugs I've changed to Oz plugs and more to do.

[rrobor]

People would like you to believe you are breaking the law, you are not. If anyone here says you are then when ever was there a case in court or who was ever fined. Its all scare stuff. Now you are liable as every other person is if you get it wrong you can be sued, charged with manslaughter or whatever as can an electrician. You, by law can not charge for certain services you are not qualified to do, but in your own home, you can change fittings etc. If you muck around in the meter box and break seals etc you could be charged or cut off. If you incorrectly wire and your house burns down, your insurance is liable to be void. As to tagging, Tagging is only done for units in public places, IE a TV in an old folks home needs a tag yours at home doesnt.

[Honorary Bloke]

So I can't rewire a table lamp?

What about changing the plug?

I've got half a dozen UK plugs I've changed to Oz plugs and more to do.

My understanding, based on about a squillion posts on the subject, is that you can work on plugged appliances but not on anything connected directly to mains. Lamps OK, the powerpoint it plugs into, no.

[rhancock]

I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but I think this is the relevant QLD legislation: http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/E/ElectricalSA02.pdf

Section 55, page 42: Requirement for electrical work licence
(1) A person must not perform or supervise electrical work
unless—
(a) the person is the holder of an electrical work licence in
force under this Act; and
(b) the licence authorises the person to perform the work.

Section 18., page 22:
Meaning of electrical work
(1) Electrical work is the manufacturing, constructing, installing,
testing, maintaining, repairing, altering, removing, or
replacing of electrical equipment.
Examples of electrical work—
• installing low voltage electrical wiring in a building
• installing electrical equipment into an installation coupler or
interconnecter
• replacing a low voltage electrical component of a washing machine
• maintaining an electricity entity’s overhead distribution system
(2) However, the following are not electrical work—
(a) installing or removing electrical equipment by
connecting it to electricity, or disconnecting it from
electricity, by a plug and socket outlet;
(b) repairing or replacing non-electrical components of
electrical equipment;
Examples for paragraph (b)—
• repairing hydraulic components attached to an electric
motor
• replacing a drive belt on a washing machine
(c) replacing a component forming part of electrical
equipment if the electrical equipment has been designed
so that the component is readily and safely able to be
replaced by a person without electrical knowledge or
skill;
Examples for paragraph (c)—
• replacing a fuse
• replacing the bulb in a light fitting

[Honorary Bloke]

All right, mates. Listen up, as I don't want to repeat:

There is no person in OZ that knows everything that is legal or not legal with regard to electrical work. In this I include the licensed sparkkies, the people who wrote the regs, the people who enforce the regs, the people who own a house and would like to do the work, and the people who post on various forums, including me. :D

I have seen and heard enough about this in the last few years that I can state unequivocally that Ozzie electrical regulations are one of life's mysteries which is beyond the capacity of man to understand. You would sooner get agreement on quantum physics theory than on this subject.

[rrobor]

My point in a nutshell, These are the rules for persons employed and being paid for services rendered. Until one person finds a law stating that a homeowner in his own premises can not change a wall socket per act XYZ all the pages posted mean nothing, and all the hot air this is bound to stir, is just that.

[Johncs]

All right, mates. Listen up, as I don't want to repeat:

There is no person in OZ that knows everything that is legal or not legal with regard to electrical work. In this I include the licensed sparkkies, the people who wrote the regs, the people who enforce the regs, the people who own a house and would like to do the work, and the people who post on various forums, including me. :D

I have seen and heard enough about this in the last few years that I can state unequivocally that Ozzie electrical regulations are one of life's mysteries which is beyond the capacity of man to understand. You would sooner get agreement on quantum physics theory than on this subject.

A person with the proper licence can be expected to know the current rules with regard to wiring. Others can be expect to not know them.

For example, I was surprised recently to discover light fittings now must be earthed, and that the house I live in must be rewired because it does not conform to current regulations.

If I were to do some wiring in my own home, that should be illegal as I am not properly qualified, even if I once was, and if I do it badly, it has the capacity to put at risk other residents and future owners and their family and friends.

I'm a computer professional, but I know a bit about teeth. Would you like me to do your next extraction?

Why not?

[rrobor]

I would suggest that is incorrect. If you were changing your lighting then you may be required to have them upgraded but new laws superceed old laws so if the job was compliant then then there is no reason or law to state you must upgrade. If there is please post it. As to the dentist, he conducts a service so nust be licenced. It was a bad choice to pick dentistry as my Father in Law pulled out his own teeth and guess what, no tooth police, just a month or so of push and pull. As to doing rewiring thats not the issue, The issue is minor maintainance.

[elkangorito]

Gentlemen.
To correct all of the incorrect information so far given, it is illegal for an "unqualified person" to work on any "fixed" electrical wiring or any part of any "fixed" electrical installation, in Australia.

Proof of these facts exist here;
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/esa2004309.txt

and here;
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/hba1989128.txt

To further simplify, one may work on uncomplicated appliances that are "plug in". E.g. a lamp or a toaster. But rest assured that the Australian insurance industry, which is now equivalent to the American insurance industry (you will be sued at the drop of a hat), will make sure that you will pay for the slightest discrepency. Criminal Law will treat you in the same way.

Seriously, if you woodworking blokes have an electrical question, why don't you ask it in the "other" forum? You will get appropriate answers in a timely fashion. This is the link for all of your electrical questions;
http://www.renovateforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78

[Honorary Bloke]

Thank you gents. :D Two of the preceding 4 posts (rrobor gets it) confirm my suspicion and reinforce my earlier statement that no one really knows the blasted things. Or if they do, they are living under Ayers Rock and keeping mum. :rolleyes:

One bloke says he must rewire his whole house, which even I know can't be true. And who told him so? I would like to think it wasn't some sparky bidding on the job, but I am too cynical for that. :wink:

My friend elkangorito is a sparky himself and a knowledgeable one, but the language he offers us is ambiguous and still leaves us scratching our heads:

What is an "unqualified" person? If that is meant to refer to "unlicensed" persons, why doesn't it say so?

If it is illegal to work on ANY part of ANY fixed electrical installation, how can it be legal to change a light bulb?

If one may work on "uncomplicated" appliances, who decides which one is too "complicated" to work on? Is there a list of complicated and uncomplicated appliances?

And so on. My point being the laws regarding who may work on what are arcane and ambiguous.

[rhancock]

Well, the legislation I quoted above applies to "imposing obligations on persons who may affect the electrical safety of others by their acts or omissions;". It is deliberately worded to not be restricted to people at work. It applies equally to people working in their own homes.

elkangorito, the legislation you linked to is NSW legislation, and may well be different to QLD legislation - another example of different laws for the few million people one side of the border from the few million the other side of the border.

[Honorary Bloke]

Are we having fun yet? :?:D

[Cliff Rogers]

... You would sooner get agreement on quantum physics theory than on this subject.
Can a Quantum Mechanic legally do Quantum Physics? :think:

[silentC]

People would like you to believe you are breaking the law, you are not. You are breaking the law (in NSW and the ACT, which is as far as I have looked).

Section 14 (Unqualified electrical wiring work) of the Home Building Act 1989 (http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/xref/inforce/?xref=Type%3Dact%20AND%20Year%3D1989%20AND%20no%3D147&nohits=y) makes it an offence for a person to carry out electrical wiring work unless the person is authorised to do so under that Act.


but in your own home, you can change fittings etc.No you can't. You can't maintain any part of an existing wiring installation unless you are a licensed contractor or under the direct supervision of one. Not in NSW, not in the ACT and most likely not in the other States.

You can work on appliances though, there is no law against that. But you have to be licensed to do it for other people.

[rrobor]

The challenge is out there. I / show one case where any home owner was charged with changing a wall socket etc anywhere in Australia. Or 2/ One case where there was compulsary entry to a private residence where the meter box had not been tampered with. Oh and the guy installing neons to run on radar signals wont do. Nor will injury investigations, as that applies to everything regardless of the way the injury was caused. If there was a law that states I cant fit a wall socket hardware stores would not sell them to me as that would be aiding and abetting. So please prove your point. But not by sticking codes down as to trade requirements or services rendered. If you can not then all you are doing is blowing hot air to protect your job.

[echnidna]

Is it illegal for you to change the batteries in your torch? :rolleyes:

[silentC]

If you can not then all you are doing is blowing hot air to protect your job. I'm not an electrician. I looked into this out of interest a few years ago when I built my place. All I'm doing is quoting to you what the legislation says. If you are too stubborn to accept it, that's your problem, not mine. How about you prove that it's NOT illegal.

For what it's worth, I did speak to an inspector from the Department of Fair Trading about this and he said that there have been cases. I don't know how you would go about finding details of them though.

Put it this way: the legislation says that it's illegal. Whether or not anyone has been caught and fined is immaterial to whether it is illegal or not. Plenty of people get away with jaywalking every day. That does not mean that if a cop wanted to, he could not fine you for it.

The question is straight forward: is it illegal? The answer is also straight forward: yes it is. The legislation says so. Have a read of the following and let us know what you think:

Electricity (Consumer Safety) Act (http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/scanview/inforce/s/1/?TITLE=%22Electricity%20%28Consumer%20Safety%29%20Act%202004%20No%204%22&nohits=y)

Regulations under the above (http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/inforce/subordleg+34+2006+cd+0+N/?dq=Regulations%20under%20Electricity%20%28Consumer%20Safety%29%20Act%202004%20No%204)

Home Building Act (http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/scanview/inforce/s/1/?TITLE=%22Home%20Building%20Act%201989%20No%20147%22&nohits=y)

That should keep you busy for awhile.

Bob: I refer you to an earlier post on another forum. :)

[echnidna]

Sc, A. - only if the batteries are 32volts or more

[silentC]

Is that fair dinkum?

[pugwash]

In the UK I rewired my entire kitchen, except for the cooker, using a book I got from the library. I then rang the Electricity board who came and tested it for me. FREE.
All perfectly legal.

[silentC]

Yes it's legal in the UK and the US I think. Some people think it should be here too. I'm in two minds - on the one hand I think you should be allowed to work on your own house as long as it's done properly and inspected. On the other, I have seen some very dodgy things done (by trades too by the way) and having legislation like this protects the future owner from buying a fire trap, or at least gives them a licensed asre to kick if it's not up to scratch.

[Johncs]

T

One bloke says he must rewire his whole house, which even I know can't be true. And who told him so? I would like to think it wasn't some sparky bidding on the job, but I am too cynical for that. :wink:



The sparky concerned is my brother, he's doing the work at cost of parts. He has no reason to misinform me. We have three years from when he told us to have it rectified.

Given the choice between accepting the advice of someone I know and who's qualified, and others I don't really know at all, I prefer my brother's advice. Any others to whom it matters, by all means check locally. Your power supply company should be able to advise you where to find the relevant regulations.

[rrobor]

I think you are misunderstanding me. If your brother put in a new installation, he is correct. If your house was wired to the code of law of that time and you are not altering anything, then the situation changes. Few laws ever get backdated, it becomes a nightmare of legislation so laws usually work on the basis of renewing the old and catching you out when you change something. At times it even works by you being unable to sell unless you have done something but backdating law is almost never done.

[Sparhawk]

It's the same with fire alarms. Not mandatory in older homes, but any new home, or if renovation occur, require them fitted.

[silentC]

laws usually work on the basis of renewing the old and catching you out when you change something.Yes this is true, however if an electrician becomes aware that the wiring at your house is non-complying, he is required to make a report detailing the area of non-compliance. This usually would only happen if you have hired someone to do some work for you for which he is required to submit a tested report.

So for example, if a sparky came to your house to install a new light fitting and he discovered that your light wiring was not earthed, he would be required to either fix it or report it and then you are given a period within which to rectify it.

A sparky cannot walk away from a job and say "it was like that when I got here". It is a condition of his license.

PS That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. What we are talking about here is the legality of it though.

[rrobor]

A sparky can not install a light fitting requiring an earth if there is no earth to fit to it. He either refuses to fit it or he supplies an appropriate earth wire, so your point is moot.

[silentC]

Yes he can install it by running a new earth wire, but he is also required to either bring the ENTIRE installation up to standard, or report it. He can't just do his bit and walk away as you seem to suggest. I also believe that even if he does not take the job, he is required to report it, although I don't know how often that happens in practice. Blind eyes are turned to a lot of things I guess.

My point is that, although the legislation is not rolled out retrospectively, it does apply when you make a change to your existing installation and it applies to the entire installation, not just to the bit the sparky is doing for you. Whether the sparky chooses to observe the requirements or not is up to him but there is always the chance that it will come back to bite him if he ignores them.

[petersemple]

My MIL built a granny flat under her house. In the process, my BIL did all the electrical wiring - he laid the cable through the wall, fitted light and power switches and fittings. The one thing he did not do is connect all his wiring in to mains. He paid for a sparky to come out and make the actual connection to the mains. Of course, the sparky needed to inspect and test the whole lot to ensure compliance before he could make that connection, and charged for the time to make all those checks. It still cost less than if the sparky had done all the installation, and my understanding is the entire process was legal, simply because all the work done to potentially live wiring was indeed done by a licenced tradeperson. There at least shows one way that parts purchased at Bunnings could legally be used in the current legislation in QLD

Peter

[rrobor]

Now if you correctkly read my post it stated the 2 options a sparky has one was fit an appropriate earth. There is legislation as to if you modify by X% and I dont know the number, then you must bring the lot up to modern standards. Replacing one baton socket is hardly likely to do that.

[silentC]

In NSW even that is not strictly legal because your BIL would need to have been under direct supervision of the licensed sparky (and he has to have a supervisor's license too I believe, not just a sparky's ticket). Again, I'm sure it happens all the time. However the sparky would have been within his rights to refuse to touch it with a 10 foot pole because he is in effect certifying someone else's work and you would want to trust them before putting your license on the line.

The law doesn't extend just to the 'connection' to the mains. It extends from the meter box to every point, light socket and switch. From my reading of it, you can't even do up the screws on a power point unless you are under the direct supervision of a licensed person. I take 'direct' supervision to mean on site.

[silentC]

There is legislation as to if you modify by X% and I dont know the number, then you must bring the lot up to modern standards.
Have you found it in those links I posted?

I'm pretty sure from speaking to a couple of electricians I know that there is no 'percentage'. You touch the wiring, it belongs to you. You must ensure the installation is safe. Not just your bit. The whole site. That's my understanding, I stand to be corrected.

There is legislation along those lines that allows council to force you to upgrade aspects of your entire residence if you are doing extension or renovation work above a certain value. This relates to things like glazing and insulation. I've not come across anything similar for electrical work.

[rrobor]

It is impossible for a sparky to guarentee that in the average house. Most of the wiring is covered by plaster , insulation and the like. If a sparky had to guarantee the complete house if say he was replacing 1 socket he would have to pull all the plasterboard off to check it. When we all become pedantic it leads to the ridiculous and this is what this argument is. Ask yourself if you have bad wiring in your house, who did it and how would you find out. If 10% of the population could collar the sparky I would be surprised. I ask again, state one case anywhere in Australia where someone has been charged with an offence for changing a wall socket and Ill eat my hat

[Sturdee]

If it is illegal to work on ANY part of ANY fixed electrical installation, how can it be legal to change a light bulb?



That's easy, changing or replacing a light bulb is not working on the electrical fittings.

It's the same as plugging an appliance into a power point.

Peter.

[silentC]

It is impossible for a sparky to guarentee that in the average house. ... etc...
Look, it's really simple. You can either keep debating it or just accept it, it makes no difference to me which.

1. In NSW and probably every other state in Australia it is illegal to touch any part of an existing electrical installation, unless you are either licensed or are under the direct supervision of a licensed person. The legislation makes this clear, if you bother to read it rather than applying your own sense of what should be the case.

2. When an electrician alters an existing installation, he is required to certify that the installation complies. If it does not, he is required to submit a fault report and the home owner will be given a specified period within which to fix it. The energy company can disconnect the supply if you do not comply.

You can argue about specifics and what ifs all day, it wont change either of these facts. If you want to know exactly how an electrician can test an installation for compliance, then you will need to talk to one about it. It's pointless arguing with me about it because I don't enforce the legislation. If you have an issue with it, take it up with your local member of parliament.

Earlier, you only wanted someone to point you to the legislation, which I did. Now it seems that isn't enough. If you want to know details of a case where a home owner has been charged, ring the Department of Fair Trading, or your state equivalent. They are the ones responsible for prosecutions.

[rrobor]

Please look at what you write before you post. Your point 1/ Show me in what law where that applies to a home owner not conducting a service. Your point 2/ you state "alters an existing installation" Now this is nonsense writen by an idiot. An electrician can not install a non compliant installation, how can he. If he does, does he then report himself, what more can I say.
You are chasing the bogeyman, Woo!! he is going to come and eat you, its all hot air designed to frighten people, Its "Reds under the bed", "The Yellow peril" and now "The man thats going to sue you for changing your own light socket". The guys in this forum use Saws, fix cars, weld and do all sorts of technical things. If they are such idiots as not to be able to loosen a couple of screws and fit a new light baton without some officious twerp saying you cant do that, then I made a mistake coming to Australia. Its not the land of fence wire fixes, its the land of wee men in white coats with clip boards. I know thats not so. I was not born here, I chose this place and there has never been a day I regretted it. Please dont have me start now.

[weisyboy]

when we put our power underground we dug teh trench and put in the wire/conduit adn the electritian just came aout and conected it either end.

worked out verry cheep.

[silentC]

Please look at what you write before you post. Your point 1/ Show me in what law where that applies to a home owner not conducting a service. Your point 2/ you state "alters an existing installation" Now this is nonsense writen by an idiot. An electrician can not install a non compliant installation, how can he. If he does, does he then report himself, what more can I say.
You're just never going to get it are you? Go away and do what the guy in your avatar is doing for awhile and come back when you have something sensible to contribute.

[RETIRED]

This has gone on long enough.