What would you do - one for the lawyers

[Calm]

I have had a issue (a word i cant stand being used) over the last couple of weeks that has me totally confused.

Tuesday (2 weeks ago) my brother saw a ute leaving my farm with some 'old' farm machines on the back (almost antiques - not in going order). he rang me and said did you give that stuff away - i said no get me the rego number so he turned around and followed them got the rego then returned to the farm to check that it was in fact my machinery that they had on. It was.

i rang the police and gve them the rego.

2 days later (thursday) they rang me - i went to the station and spoke to the policeman who was handling the job - and he told me he had seen the stuff, the person told him he was related to my mate (who's estate this stuff is from) and that years ago his family and my mates family (possibly grandfathers not even fathers) used each other's machinery and what he had taken belonged to his family and had jhust been left there. Not a police matter it was up to me to take him to court to get it back. The policeman has contacted te solicitor (executor of estate) and left details. He wouldnt give me the persons name and address so i could take him to court.

Yesterday - the Solicitor (back from 2 weeks holiday) rings me and tells me that the person is allowed to come onto my property and get something that is his (so long as he doesnt break anything) and i cant do anythign about it - If i want the stuff back i have to take him to court and prove that it isnt his. THATS RIGHT he took it and now that he has it i hav eto prove it isnt his. I cant go and take it back because that is breaking the law.

If it was still on my property he would have to prove it was his if he wanted it - but because he has it i have to prove it is not his.:?:?:?:?:?:?:?:?:?

So in summary - it is mine (as far as i can ascertain) he took it, now i have to prove it is not his. Or i forget about it.

Over to your comments.

Cheers

[Big Shed]

Just goes to show that "possession is 9/10th of the law" or words to that effect!

How sure are you that what he says is not true?

Either way, it would be hard to prove.

If he was not "breaking the law" by taking it, you wouldn't be "breaking the law" by taking it back, would you?

[Groggy]

Something is wrong here. Removing it without permission after the will has been settled is theft, surely.

I'm certainly not a lawyer but I thought they had to make claims during the settlement of the will or they forgo any right to the goods.

[Calm]

I would say this stuff hasnt been used for at least 30 years or more. It has stayed right where it was taken from for that period at least.

Any one who was around when it was used is dead, there would be no receipts, photos or anything else. My mate never spoke of "sharing " equipment with others. As i knew him he always only used his own stuff - if he didnt have it he did it another way.

Cheers

[Calm]

Greg the "claim" period for the will expires end August - he hasnt bothered to approach the executor and ask for huis families stuff back he just opened the gate drove in and took it. If he left it and asked the sestate for it he has to prove its his but because he has it now i have to prove its not his.

I can sue him for trespass but the judge will say what did he break and when i say nothing he will say wahtr are you claiming for? What can i say to that.

Added - when probate is granted anyone has 6 months to contest a will that period ends end August. But even after that he can still say its his and take it. I dont understand it.

[Groggy]

Bugger. Is the executor responsible for the security of the property until it is settled? If not I would be removing anything else of value quick-smart.

[Calm]

Bugger. Is the executor responsible for the security of the property until it is settled? If not I would be removing anything else of value quick-smart.

Well this is the catch 22 (check my album for photos of security/sheds (http://www.woodworkforums.com/album.php?albumid=118))

I am the beneficiary but cant do anything until the 6 months is up. (its not mine of someone challenges and wins)
Most of it is not of any great value. (laying around most farms is old machinery/cars etc)
There is so much stuff that to shed it all would take a decent sized wharehouse plus carting it there.

Cheers

[joe greiner]

According to my extremely imperfect knowledge of law, this seems to fall under provisions of "replevin." I suggest you engage a solicitor to advise you of your best approach, and/or to advise you of fees associated with prosecution.

It sounds like a can of worms.

Cheers,
Joe

[ColW]

Unfortunately this horse has bolted, i gather the police and a solicitor have now been in contact with this person and this person has had an explaination on hand that they are both satisfied with. Very convenient, considering it would have been just as easy to approach you with this claim. So why didn't he?

Either way i'd be investing in some chains and padlocks for anything of value, starting at the gate.

Try and make it so if anyone comes back to take stuff, they have to break and enter.

If this person truly is deceitful, and a thief ,it probably won't bother him to break in, but the fact the police know who he is and where to find him hopefully will be deterrent enough

good luck
col.

[qldlifestyle]

Mate, I have often heard that the law is an ass. This seems to be a prime example.

You say the gear hasn't been used or moved for thirty years and that it has litttle value?

I would be ropable in your position. Then after I had a chance to think about it, I would cut my loses and wait for karma to get the a-hole.

[tea lady]

At least if you pad lock the gate and he breaks in you can sue him for the damage to the lock.:rolleyes: :shrug: I'd thank him for removing some junk from the property. And don't send him xmas cards anymore?:D

Truly sounds like the law is an ass. :doh:

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I would be ropable in your position. Then after I had a chance to think about it, I would cut my loses and wait for karma to get the a-hole.

Karma? That's an odd name for a lump of 2x4... :innocent:

[tea lady]

Karma? That's an odd name for a lump of 2x4... :innocent::think: might be a good name for a dog.:rolleyes:

[Calm]

Unfortunately this horse has bolted, i gather the police and a solicitor have now been in contact with this person and this person has had an explaination on hand that they are both satisfied with. Very convenient, considering it would have been just as easy to approach you with this claim. So why didn't he?

....................

Well if he approached me he had to prove it was his - now i have to prove it's not. So who has the impossible task now??

The solicitor and i are still considering what to do. BTW the shed it was taken from is 500 metres up the paddock, over the hill, in trees out of sight from the roads.

Thanks for your thoughts

[Grumpy John]

David, if the guy had contacted you or the solicitor and explained the situation (as he perceives it) would you have let him have the machinery? Just adding another worm to the can :whatonearth:.

[Lignin]

Calm,
If you value the stuff, either monetarily or sentimentally, go for broke to get it back.Solicitors, mates with lumps of 4X2, etc, whatever it takes, but remember that even if you win a case in court and get costs, you'll be SIGNIFICANTLY out of pocket.
I'd be less than impressed if it had happened to me, and, being fairly vitriolic, would probably confront the thieving bastard, and end up in clink myself, but the sense of satisfaction would be a fair compensation.
Good luck,

[ColW]

Well if he approached me he had to prove it was his - now i have to prove it's not. So who has the impossible task now??



Ok so assuming he owns it because it's impossible to prove he
doesn't, it was still on your land so perhaps you should send
him an invoice for 30 years rent, or at least as long as you've owned
the land, charged at the current market value per square metre,
if he doesn't pay it then take it to VCAT, he can't claim there was never
any agreement reached because he didn't notify you that it was his
property to begin with.

[bluegum30]

Calm, if you have the rego number of this person go to the transport department and you can find out who this rego belongs to. Lloyd.

[dj_pnevans]

ColW has hit the nail on the head I have done this before and it cost the guy about $1000 all up for abot 6months of storage. It only started out to be $600 but with all the court cost and file fees it adds up and all I had to do was fill out a form and the courts did the rest.
All the best.
David

[corbs]

Have watched this for a while and I think Col's solution is almost poetic... if he maintains the gear is his then he pays storage, if he says the gear isn't his after all then he stole it:2tsup:.

Sure there might be issues with getting the $$$ but the principle is fantastic.

[Ashore]

karma, is a wonderful thing, thing about karma is though it works both ways :rolleyes:

[echnidna]

Might be worth making sure the shed still has a clearly seen notice posted in the format of the disposal of uncollected goods act before you start.

Apparently the going rate for storage of a car is $13 per day, worth checking out with the VACC and going from there.

$13 per day for 30 years might equal another house (his)

[artme]

Was it Sir Thomas Moore who said " The law sir, is an ass!"?

[bsrlee]

Eeee-Aww

There are a number of problems in situations like this.

1) From a Police perspective, you have no 'real' evidence of exactly what has been stolen. Your friend saw the P. leave the property with a truck load of 'stuff', but no-one has any photos or similar means of identifying what was taken.

If anything still on the property has any value, I strongly suggest taking lots of photo's of it, record any identifying marks/serial numbers etc. and lock up any sheds or outbuildings.

2) It sounds like the 'relative' is a nasty scheming scumbag, which is probably why he was left out of the will in the first place, and will steal what ever he can & wreck anything he does not want if thwarted. At the moment you have a sort-of standoff - he knows that someone watches the place and the Police have been advised he is taking stuff. The less you have to do with him the better.

Pipe dream stuff:

It would be a 'real pity' if someone let it slip near some of the even less honest members of the community that the P. had taken a load of 'valuable antiques - cleaned the place out' and 'probably has it hidden all round his place' - indeed I wouldn't be surprised if someone broke in & trashed his property while you were miles away. :o

It would be even worse if someone though that there was gear that could be used for drug processing, since we all know that the Bikie Gangs are all out of business.

[Calm]

Eeee-Aww

There are a number of problems in situations like this.

1) From a Police perspective, you have no 'real' evidence of exactly what has been stolen. Your friend saw the P. leave the property with a truck load of 'stuff', but no-one has any photos or similar means of identifying what was taken.

When the cops went around to his house he took them and showed them exactly what he had taken. - there is no dispute about what it was or the fact he has it.

If anything still on the property has any value, I strongly suggest taking lots of photo's of it, record any identifying marks/serial numbers etc. and lock up any sheds or outbuildings.

2) It sounds like the 'relative' is a nasty scheming scumbag, which is probably why he was left out of the will in the first place, and will steal what ever he can & wreck anything he does not want if thwarted. At the moment you have a sort-of standoff - he knows that someone watches the place and the Police have been advised he is taking stuff. The less you have to do with him the better.

He claims he is a 2nd cousin i am not sure that is the case either.

Pipe dream stuff:

It would be a 'real pity' if someone let it slip near some of the even less honest members of the community that the P. had taken a load of 'valuable antiques - cleaned the place out' and 'probably has it hidden all round his place' - indeed I wouldn't be surprised if someone broke in & trashed his property while you were miles away. :o

It would be even worse if someone though that there was gear that could be used for drug processing, since we all know that the Bikie Gangs are all out of business.

Thanks for your thoughts. - i think in another 6 weeks (when the will challenge period finishes) i will sell everything that is not bolted down - that should stuff the theives up for a while.

Cheers